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[martinuzz]

And even then, I'm not quite sure of the ethics of "curing" the autistic. The high-functioning ones are perfectly capable of leading healthy and well-adjusted lives given good (and preferably early) intervention, so do you demarcate it at degree of functioning? What is that, changing the way in which someone thinks fundamentally just because it's not "smart" enough for you? Dubious, methinks. It's just an ethical minefield everywhere you go.

I wouldn't get a cure, even if it existed. It'd be like giving working eyes to a blind-from-birth person; are you sure that any of those things that would have to be rewired are even gonna work as intended? Would I even care about the added capabilities at this point in my life, and would it overwrite my current ones? Would I even want those? What of my personality? Am I truly "me" after a cure?

If ever anyone tries to 'cure' my asperger with chemicals I will treat them as if they were trying to murder me.  I would defend myself, even to a point of killing them if need be.

Basically, as you said, I would no longer be 'me'. They would be trying to kill 'me'.

[scriver]

Have either of you actually aware of how completely debilitating autism can be for low functioning people?

[ChairmanPoo]

Have either of you actually aware of how completely debilitating autism can be for low functioning people?

QFT

Not only from an academical POV (I think I posted a few graphs years ago, back when I was studying psychiatry at uni; the numbers of people with ASD who are severely affected in their daily lives is bonkers. Even accepting that maybe high functioning people are dramatically underdiagnosed, it doesn´t really change things: If someone has some degree of ASD but is functioning to the point of being undiagnosed, it´s not something clinically relevant, anymore than other undiagnosed "mild" conditions.  The problem comes when it *does* severely affect your daily life).  I have a cousin that is severy crippled by his condition and can barely function in society. I think both he and his parents would be ecstatic if they could get something that would help him cope.

[methylatedspirit]

I would agree that, yes, such a cure for low-functioning autistics might be a good idea. I have my own doubts, though:

The kind of power you'd need to be able to essentially rewrite and rewire the brain of a low-functioning autistic to such an extent that they can function independently... that is dehumanizing. I suppose you could do small things here and there, make them less sensitive to certain things, generally tone down the worst symptoms, but I suppose there's that whole issue of consent, as well as what happens if there are complications. Surely modifications like this might get "rejected" by the brain, as much as the rest of the body might reject a transplanted organ.

Tricky, yet more clear-cut than the case of curing high-functioning autistics. Do you rate the necessity of a cure by personal happiness (to receive such a cure), or by degree of independent functioning (gained by such a cure)? These do often coincide, but the edge cases where they don't, that will be a messy thing.

[Mathel]

So, I also have aspergers and have had to take medication while I was a child. After I became officialy adult, I got to get off it though.

Here are my observations and thoughts:
First, asperger syndrome, autism, etc. are considered mind impairing disease. That, coupled with the fact that it is ofted discovered when one is a child allows parents to force their children to take drugs to suppress it.
I do not think this is correct though.
I consider it to be more like our minds work differently. Yes, a low functioning person has problems functioning in society (obviously). But if there was a society of people with similar difference from current norm, perhaps a person considered normal here would have functioning there.
And of course, I doubt that everybody considered normal works the same. Just similar enough that it does not matter.

That the drugs exist is OK I think. But they should not be forceable, even by guardians to their wards. Instead, everybody to whom they apply should get a choice whether or not to take them.

[martinuzz]

Have either of you actually aware of how completely debilitating autism can be for low functioning people?

Yes. I am. I can only speak for myself on the matter. If someone believes that they would live a happier life if there were meds that could take their autism away, I am not one to judge their decision.

I do believe that it should never be forced though. I equate that to murder. Not death of the flesh, but death of the identity.

Then again.. Are you aware how completely debilitating being low functioning can be for low functioning people?

[wierd]

I would agree that, yes, such a cure for low-functioning autistics might be a good idea. I have my own doubts, though:

The kind of power you'd need to be able to essentially rewrite and rewire the brain of a low-functioning autistic to such an extent that they can function independently... that is dehumanizing. I suppose you could do small things here and there, make them less sensitive to certain things, generally tone down the worst symptoms, but I suppose there's that whole issue of consent, as well as what happens if there are complications. Surely modifications like this might get "rejected" by the brain, as much as the rest of the body might reject a transplanted organ.

Tricky, yet more clear-cut than the case of curing high-functioning autistics. Do you rate the necessity of a cure by personal happiness (to receive such a cure), or by degree of independent functioning (gained by such a cure)? These do often coincide, but the edge cases where they don't, that will be a messy thing.

The major difference, as I have come to understand it, is the size and internal structure of the amygdalae. In autistic spectrum people, these structures are smaller, and the cellular structure inside is "less dense".  A good portion of the disorder likely stems from this physiological anomaly.

Now, say a radical stem-cell therapy with genetically modified neural stem cells, and some primer RNA to guide integration (or some similar tactic) was used, the existing amygdalae could be salvaged, and function improved.

Suppose such a procedure became available; Given the degree of "Timmy is showing signs of autism! DO SOMETHING NAAAOOOW!" that "mama Karen" is going to be exhibiting, there would need to be some pretty significant clinical criteria to evaluate the patient, and determine if shooting those small almond shaped bits of brain full of specially grown brain goo is a good idea or not.

[Frumple]

Why exactly did you show me this, and what the hell is it an advert for?

It's an advert for weight loss/"digestion health" supplements, checking into the company mentioned. Name dropping steven masley, whoever the hell that is (some kind of health show/book person, can't easily tell if they're an overt quack or not, though I tend to idly assume they're some variety of it if they're running TV shows and shilling food health books and junk).

If you're doing any sort of searching for food or health or anything related to it, it's probably what led to the particular advert. Good luck getting it out of your browsing :V

[wierd]

I bet it happened when I looked up that absurdly high potency D3... (showing Arx how crazy US supplement market is...)

Being shown an ad about 71 year old women shitting enough to fill the bowl 5 or 6 times over, probably takes the prize in demonstrating our need for regulation better though.

[Arx]

I'm definitely somewhere on the spectrum (at least, that's what the professional tells me), but also very high functioning. I'm fine with not being "cured", I'm not struggling.

There's a kid in my sunday school class who's probably autistic, although I don't know exactly because I haven't asked his parents. There are times when he'll go off in a fit of rage for some reason and it takes me half an hour of working with him for him to be able to communicate the problem at all. It's really hard for me to say that it'd be a bad thing if there were some medication that helped him let me know when something's wrong.

[pisskop]

I almost feel like part of the curse of intelligence is being on the spectrum...

genius and insanity and all that.

After all, intelligence grants you novel perspective, and its incredibly easy to be seen as different with a different perspective.

[martinuzz]

I almost feel like part of the curse of intelligence is being on the spectrum...

genius and insanity and all that.

After all, intelligence grants you novel perspective, and its incredibly easy to be seen as different with a different perspective.

I tend to view asperger as a complex tool that requires a certain minimum intelligence and education level to be advantageous.

[pisskop]

genius and insanity . . .

[methylatedspirit]

I tend to view asperger as a complex tool that requires a certain minimum intelligence and education level to be advantageous.

I'm not one to be making particularly well-formed opinions at night, but it's that overspecialization thing that plays some kind of role here. I, for instance, have zero sense of fashion, a complete inability to determine physical attractiveness at precisions higher than 1 bit, and a visual motion processor that's just crap, but at least I have things that I like and know a lot about. I happen to know my stuff about computers, mostly really good ones and old ones. It also turns out that my general knowledge is apparently good, so at least my information-devouring nature is working somewhat.

Of course, I had to actually learn things that I "missed". Social skills, for instance, which at this point are less like a set of instructions as much as it is a gigantic neural network that takes in information (in words, tone and timing), and outputs appropriate responses. It does this in real time, which I'm proud of. I don't have a damn clue what's going on there, I just know that it works.

As it stands, the abilities that I don't have, I just ignore, since it's good enough to just emulate the basics of a normal person and call it a day. You don't even need to be able to do all of them. It's absolutely possible to not give a flying fuck about fashion or appearance, and people just go "eh, whatever". Honestly, my "normal person" emulator is about as accurate as DOSBox is (try watching DOSBox try to run 8088 MPH, it's a hoot), and it's funny as hell to see that no-one bats an eye.

[BlackFlyme]

It’s not uncommon for someone to ask me if they can use or buy models I’ve already marked as ‘free for commercial use’.

But someone’s asking if they can buy one of my free models so that they don’t have to credit me “as cc by license”. I mean, I don’t care that much about the model’s attribution, but it’s still odd.