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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 7128538 times)

Graknorke

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71955 on: March 11, 2015, 08:16:54 pm »

I reckon Cptn's right about talking, on both counts. If you talk without thinking it makes it sound like you know exactly what you want to say, which translates to being confident. If you stop and think then you seem unsure or indecisive, which is not confident.
And the art of talking codshit in such a way that people stop paying attention to your words is a thing too. At most they'll register that you're talking and a general subject.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71956 on: March 11, 2015, 08:31:35 pm »

It generally shows confidence, so long as you're not babbling. Many politicians have mastered the art of saying very little in a lot of words.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71957 on: March 11, 2015, 08:32:53 pm »

What it basically means is that you'd need to roll two attack rolls for every attack you make, one to see if you land a hit, and another to see if the hit does damage.

So, for example, instead of AC 20, you would have DAC 5 and AAC 15. Any attack that roll higher than AAC but lower than AAC+DAC would count as hitting the armor.

I've already accounted for that issue. You only need a single attack roll, it's just that there's more granularity in the list of possible results. Granted, there are bound to be some edge cases where the system would start to behave weirdly, but it's better that what we have now.
I don't really see how that's better, unless you want to start modeling armor damage. Both systems would output the same result, unless you're going to complicate things further with different damage types getting partial armor penetration, shock damage, &c., which again is needlessly tedious for a roleplaying game. As he said, what you're asking for is the sort of thing that would fit right in to a wargame. RPGs aren't about perfectly simulating every aspect of combat, they're about creating a good enough combat system such that it has versimilitude, so that it can be worked into the story they're building.

Again, you're trying to create a mechanic to make up for lazy roleplaying. If an attack was just below the target's AC, rather than saying "You miss," when they're attacking a slow, armored target, give a brief description of them denting the armor, or their blade skittering off scarcely an inch from a vulnerable joint. If you get to the point where people stop caring about the descriptions and just want to get on with it, the mechanic becomes redundant as well but can't simply be dropped for convenience.
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Fniff

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71958 on: March 11, 2015, 08:41:09 pm »

I really wish people would take into account how difficult some systems are to roleplay at the table.
Yes, your system that requires 30d10s per player does model a bellcurve excellently! But how in Camelot am I supposed to get hundreds of 10-sided dice? And yep, your combat does manage to model every single outcome that could happen when an arrow hits someone, but that requires me to spend half the night describing it to my friends.
Note, these examples are exaggerated, unless you're playing FATAL.

Graknorke

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71959 on: March 11, 2015, 08:43:49 pm »

And yep, your combat does manage to model every single outcome that could happen when an arrow hits someone, but that requires me to spend half the night describing it to my friends.
The arrow hits you in the
*roll*
left ear, and pierces through to the
*roll*
left kidney.
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Fniff

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71960 on: March 11, 2015, 08:53:08 pm »

And yep, your combat does manage to model every single outcome that could happen when an arrow hits someone, but that requires me to spend half the night describing it to my friends.
The arrow hits you in the
*roll*
left ear, and pierces through to the
*roll*
left kidney.
"I, uh, try to remove the arrow?"
You try to pull it out,
*roll*
which causes your intestines to spill out,
*roll*
and gives you brain damage,
*roll*
you now have aphasia...
*roll*
Specifically, finger aphasia. You can no longer recognize your own fingers, other people's fingers, or even drawings of fingers.
"... Shit."

BlackFlyme

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71961 on: March 11, 2015, 08:57:09 pm »

Specifically, finger aphasia. You can no longer recognize your own fingers, other people's fingers, or even drawings of fingers.
"... Shit."

That reminds me of something that can't recognize fingers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Sergarr

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71962 on: March 11, 2015, 08:57:44 pm »

What it basically means is that you'd need to roll two attack rolls for every attack you make, one to see if you land a hit, and another to see if the hit does damage.

So, for example, instead of AC 20, you would have DAC 5 and AAC 15. Any attack that roll higher than AAC but lower than AAC+DAC would count as hitting the armor.

I've already accounted for that issue. You only need a single attack roll, it's just that there's more granularity in the list of possible results. Granted, there are bound to be some edge cases where the system would start to behave weirdly, but it's better that what we have now.
I don't really see how that's better, unless you want to start modeling armor damage. Both systems would output the same result, unless you're going to complicate things further with different damage types getting partial armor penetration, shock damage, &c., which again is needlessly tedious for a roleplaying game. As he said, what you're asking for is the sort of thing that would fit right in to a wargame. RPGs aren't about perfectly simulating every aspect of combat, they're about creating a good enough combat system such that it has versimilitude, so that it can be worked into the story they're building.

Again, you're trying to create a mechanic to make up for lazy roleplaying. If an attack was just below the target's AC, rather than saying "You miss," when they're attacking a slow, armored target, give a brief description of them denting the armor, or their blade skittering off scarcely an inch from a vulnerable joint. If you get to the point where people stop caring about the descriptions and just want to get on with it, the mechanic becomes redundant as well but can't simply be dropped for convenience.
I still think that game mechanics should support roleplaying directly without hand-waving things.

The system as it is cannot actually support the "strong guy misses the quick one" literature archetype and in fact, punishes people for doing it. And you're not hand-waving that one. It's a problem which is really apparent when you try to make a character around the idea of dodging big dudes instead of tanking their super-strong blows with armor.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71963 on: March 11, 2015, 08:58:27 pm »

Specifically, finger aphasia. You can no longer recognize your own fingers, other people's fingers, or even drawings of fingers.
"... Shit."
I desperately want to play this game.
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Fniff

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71964 on: March 11, 2015, 09:00:33 pm »

Specifically, finger aphasia. You can no longer recognize your own fingers, other people's fingers, or even drawings of fingers.
"... Shit."
I desperately want to play this game.
I think I do too.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71965 on: March 11, 2015, 09:02:18 pm »

You have dexterity bonus limits for heavier armour. So yes, a quick fighter can be harder to hit than a heavily armoured fighter. Full plate makes you very hard to injure because that's what it was meant to do and did[/].

Armour Class is more abstract- its the difficulty of an effective blow rather than hitting.
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71966 on: March 11, 2015, 09:04:31 pm »

There's an optional rule where half of your armour's AC gets converted into DR instead. You'd be easier to hit, but harder to actually damage.
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Aklyon

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71967 on: March 11, 2015, 09:09:42 pm »

Decided to check out the Raocow forums. I don't think I have ever seen a community that hostile outside of tumblr, 4chan, or Reddit. I was not expecting that at all.
Raocow has a forum?
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Crystalline (SG)
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Sergarr

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71968 on: March 11, 2015, 09:10:10 pm »

You have dexterity bonus limits for heavier armour. So yes, a quick fighter can be harder to hit than a heavily armoured fighter. Full plate makes you very hard to injure because that's what it was meant to do and did[/].

Armour Class is more abstract- its the difficulty of an effective blow rather than hitting.
The thing is, that system breaks for super-naturally strong opponents, like giants, who should with their strength score realistically be casually able to smash through steel plate.

Against them, armor should be not very effective - and it is. But dodging them is even less effective - and that's the part that doesn't make sense. They're big and not very dexterous, yet dodging is less effective than tanking with a full plate (which would, again, realistically be smashed through by a creature with Str 35).
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #71969 on: March 11, 2015, 09:14:32 pm »

Quote
The thing is, that system breaks for super-naturally strong opponents, like giants, who should with their strength score realistically be casually able to smash through steel plate.

They still do. Most giants tend to have such high strength that it is pretty hard for them to miss.
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