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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 5974056 times)

Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133470 on: May 09, 2018, 06:24:47 pm »

The only complaints about The Last Jedi that I've heard are based more generally on the aspect of it being shit.

Ghostbusters I've definitely heard a lot of politalk about. Haven't seen it myself to personally say how preachy it was or wasn't.

Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133471 on: May 09, 2018, 06:28:14 pm »

That's right, but the media as a whole did spin The Last Jedi backlash as being only from the alt-right. One of the common accusations was that all the bad reviews were from sock puppet accounts from alt-right people on 4chan. This is one of things I was thinking about when I said they were accusing dislikers as being closet Nazis. A chain of guilt by association which can't be substantiated.

However, the "only bigots dislike TLJ" angle can't really explain how the exact same people seemed to like Rogue One and The Force Awakens perfectly fine, despite the female leads of those films getting even more screen time. In fact, one of the most common complaints about TLJ is that Rey's training arc isn't as detailed as Luke's was in Empire, and that they should have cut out the who casino arc of Finn's, and that Poe's story was completely pointless. Which is asking for more Rey at the expense of both male lead's screentime, so I can't see how that's subtly veiled sexism at all.

Example article:

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-the-alt-right-and-nostalgic-trolls-hijacked-geek-pop-culture

Quote
Mark Hamill engaged in highly publicized battles with a who's who of the far-right wing of American politics. The actor clashed over net neutrality with conservative firebrand Texas Senator Ted Cruz, tangled with the NRA ... mirroring the battle lines in a scorched-earth political arena, the dialogue around The Last Jedi has been uniquely divisive ... it's sometimes as a delivery mechanism for a more insidious agenda. It became clear for the world to see that something was seriously amiss when a huge discrepancy opened between the critical and audience scores for the movie on Rotten Tomatoes.


The highlighted line is the part I was talking about with Batman Ninja, the spread of scores is very close to TLJ. And in that article they lay it clear, trying to imply that the low-raters are in bed with the ilk of NRA supporters and "far-right wing" of politics. e.g. if you gave a low score for TLJ on Rotten Tomatoes, you're are as bad as the white supremacists who marched at Charlottesville.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 06:39:48 pm by Reelya »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133472 on: May 09, 2018, 06:34:35 pm »

Methinks, you're having this conversation only with yourself here.
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133473 on: May 09, 2018, 06:40:50 pm »

it's not a discussion, i was just bringing it up as my own wtf. (EDIT I should have perhaps said "in a related WTF" ... because it was the Rotten Tomatoes score spread of Batman Ninja which reminded me of this whole other WTF. Where it turned into a discussion was people not knowing the context of what I was talking about, so i provided that context in follow-up posts. This post and the previous ones are in response to Kagus who didn't think the TLJ issue was politicized. I'm providing evidence that it was very politicized, even more than Ghostbusters)

e.g. the argument in the previously-quoted article goes that Mark Hamill doesn't like far-right people, and some people don't like TLJ (which has Mark Hamill in it), with an unspoken "insidious agenda". e.g. the argument at this point is that if Mark Hamill doesn't like Nazis and you don't like something that has Mark Hamill in it, perhaps you're a Nazi. Then they hit you with the "evidence" that Rotten Tomatoes users scored the movie differently from critics. This is then treated as the smoking-gun evidence that the "not liking TLJ = Nazi" conjecture was true. (They then go on to list reasons that a far-right person might not like TLJ without actually quoting any TLJ-haters, then it's just assumed the Rotten Tomatoes voters merely didn't like TLJ for the stated reasons. e.g. circular logic).

EDIT: You don't even have to google Star Wars (i got the last link from googling "Alt Right Hate Wonderwoman" i.e. I was looking for something completely different), google "alt right hate movie" and the first link is one claiming TLJ haters are from the far-right. In fact, this article is even more blunt:
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/21/25647911/the-fact-that-the-alt-right-hates-star-wars-the-last-jedi-shouldnt-surprise-you
Quote
The alt-right (or, more accurately, neo-Nazis) predictably hate Star Wars: The Last Jedi

^ This one is straight up calling people who didn't like TLJ as actual bona-fide Nazis, since it's stated to be "more accurate" to call TLJ haters Nazis than alt-right >:( ... Sure, it doesn't follow in a strictly logical sense that TLJ haters must be Nazis, but the writer clearly intends to cast the aspersion that all haters of the movie TLJ are suspected of being real-life actual Nazis.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 07:16:13 pm by Reelya »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133474 on: May 09, 2018, 06:41:40 pm »

Methinks, you're having this conversation only with yourself here.

On the bright side, at least he's not randomly bringing up how the dress is gold and white!
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Tack

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133475 on: May 09, 2018, 09:42:53 pm »

Used to homegrow teeny strawberries.
Definitely sweeter than supermarket ones, but that also means very tart, so I still prefer the big and flavourless variety.
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overseer05-15

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133476 on: May 09, 2018, 10:51:45 pm »

The only complaints about The Last Jedi that I've heard are based more generally on the aspect of it being shit.

Ghostbusters I've definitely heard a lot of politalk about. Haven't seen it myself to personally say how preachy it was or wasn't.

I cant recall how bad the preachiness was in Ghostbusters, but it was still unfunny and unenertaining.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133477 on: May 09, 2018, 10:57:04 pm »

The big problem with the-movie-that-must-not-be-named isn't the quality of the film itself (which is very, very low), but the fact that any criticism of it was folded into the semi-genuine (the backlash was real, but it is unclear how much of it was trolling) misogynistic backlash - even fairly mild "I know you're waiting for a review of this, but I have no confidence in the film based on the trailer. Because of this, I have no intention of seeing it" types got treated like the worst "how dare that cow get a movie with those hags!" comments.
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wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133478 on: May 09, 2018, 11:02:33 pm »

(Is reminded of the first obama election. Was routinely painted with the "YOU FILTHY RACIST! HOW DARE YOU!!" brush, for suggesting that Obama was not an ideal candidate on his merits, and that too much hoopla was being made about his being black. (IMHO, the race of the candidate is immaterial. You elect a leader for their leadership skills and decision making ability, not what their light absorption spectra are.) The "YOU DARE DISAGREE!!? YOU MUST BE %HATED_DEMOGRAPHIC%!!" thing gets old pretty damn fast, but it is the immediate fallback of the very vocal social justice demographic. The lack of introspection, lack of criticality in evaluating a dissenting opinion, and the broad brush strokes used, makes me not want to consider them credible to blow their own noses, let alone dictate how I should live my life. Just saying.)
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Tawa

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133479 on: May 10, 2018, 12:44:54 am »

Reelya, you should actually read the articles you cite as proof that the media is out to get you. Both of the articles you linked very explicitly say "nazis hate the film", not "everyone who hates the film is a nazi".
Quote
That isn't to say that all objections to The Last Jedi or The Force Awakens, which introduced the new cast are rooted in far-right ideology or hatred. For some, the story simply didn't conform to what they had imagined; fans have had over 30 years to dream up what Luke Skywalker did after Return of the Jedi, and there were plenty of now-discarded novels, comics, and video games that offered more rousing heroics than his self-imposed exile on a forgotten island. Those dissatisfied on this count are sometimes rigid nostalgists, and that doesn't connote hatred, even if it is yearning for a past that was less equal.
That's an excerpt from the first. And I'd reject your interpretation of the second, emphasis mine:
Quote
Of course, the alt-right sees all of this as an attack on white males, and is now claiming responsibility for the low audience score the film currently has on Rotten Tomatoes (it has a very high critics score, however)
That, by itself, suggests he doesn't think they're wholly responsible, but if you follow the link he provides for this, you'll see it's a HuffPo article detailing both sides of the issue, itself explicitly stating that not all TLJ haters are alt-right.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133480 on: May 10, 2018, 01:45:42 am »

The nature of the article and the disclaimer suggests that most haters are alt right. AKA with that sort of disclaimer they are begging the question



I think it was a lousy wreck of a movie myself, from beginning to end. Rey is a rather bidimensional main character, but she's not the worst in this fest, IMO. The sheer ridiculousness of the two surviving main villains is much more worrying
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133481 on: May 10, 2018, 02:08:13 am »

Quote
I think it was a lousy wreck of a movie myself, from beginning to end.

Yeah, the backlash against the backlash tends to miss that most of the criticism is over structural issues not "there are girls in it" or "it's not the Star Wars I remember", and the articles are trying to pigeonhole it into those two exact things.

by far the most common complaints are that the movie jump-cuts around too much (three different plots going on at once), that it doesn't resolve plot points brought up in the new trilogy itself, that Rey doesn't get enough development as a character, and that the whole casino arc is just awfully shoe-horned in and doesn't fit the setting. In fact, the biggest complaint is that there are too many rehashes of old Star Wars plot points and set pieces, but they're done in a way that doesn't propel the plot.

Quote
Both of the articles you linked very explicitly say "nazis hate the film", not "everyone who hates the film is a nazi".

i think that's a rather weak defense there Tawa. It's common for people to associate things in the same way e.g. constantly using phrases like "islamic terrorists" and "all terrorists are muslims" could be defended using the same logic you're using here. It doesn't work like that Tawa. When someone says "all Nazis do X" they're very heavily - and deliberately implying "people who do X are Nazis" in most people's minds.  Saying that they're not doing that is no better than being an apologist for Muslim haters who sneakily imply that all Muslims are terrorists in similar ways.

And think about this from a tactical point of view - why the article even exists - the point of the article isn't to smear Nazis as Star Wars haters, because Nazis don't need to be smeared in that way (are you going to think less of Nazis than you do now, because they don't like Star Wars?) it's deliberately designed to smear TLJ haters as Nazis. That's the goal of the entire article.

Quote
Of course, the alt-right sees all of this as an attack on white males, and is now claiming responsibility for the low audience score the film currently has on Rotten Tomatoes (it has a very high critics score, however)

You might have mis-interpreted this Tawa, since the article isn't saying the low scores aren't because of alt-right/Nazis. It just says the alt-right claims credit for the low scores, then immediately notes that critics give TLJ very high scores. So what is that saying, decoded: "Nazis claim they were responsible for giving it low scores, and look, these other people - who aren't Nazis - gave it high scores". That's not disputing the claim, the additional point about the critic's scores was to add credence to the claim that the alt-right/Nazis were in fact responsible for the low scores. e.g. the aspersion here is that low score = Nazi and that's contrasted with high score = Non-Nazi.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 03:04:30 am by Reelya »
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133482 on: May 10, 2018, 02:12:00 am »

I do wonder if TLJ is gonna get vindicated by history over the next two decades or so once the weirdness dies down and we get a third film to put it all into context. After all, The Empire Strikes Back wasn't quite as well regarded when it came out.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133483 on: May 10, 2018, 02:12:27 am »

I take it back, this would be more fun if it were about the dress.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133484 on: May 10, 2018, 02:42:09 am »

I take it back, this would be more fun if it were about the dress.

As you wish

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