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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 13003443 times)

Maximum Spin

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152880 on: August 13, 2020, 04:06:08 pm »

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wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152881 on: August 13, 2020, 04:26:23 pm »

This probably belongs in the veganism thread--

But here's my unsolicited take anyway.

Getting all worked up into a lather about the evolved mechanisms at play in a natural system is like getting into a lather over the existence of rain.  The fig tree has evolved to exploit a specific species of wasp, because it banging around inside the bell of the flower and being unable to escape, results in a greater propensity of pollen getting put onto its pistil, which increases its reproductive fitness.  Likewise, producing an edible (and tasty) fruit, increases the distance its seeds are carried, thus leveraging additional animal species into its reproductive strategy.  The plant has no nervous system, it is incapable of planning or plotting.  It is the product of biochemical systems slowly changing over time, favoring the retention of systems that are better able to replicate themselves.  The fruit produced by these plants are important food sources for many other species as well.

Getting worked up over this is like getting worked up over plants using the carbon dioxide produced from the action of toxic bacteria, actively killing an animal host.  The plants soaking up the CO2 do not care about where that CO2 came from. The germs killing their host do not care about the longevity of the host.  Likewise, I do not care about the dead wasp. I only care about the fig. The same mechanisms that prompted the fig to develop an unusually shaped flower, will drive the wasp to adapt to not being trapped inside it.


Humans are unique, in that our natural programming gives rise to an unusually interconnected "perceptual landscape", that allows detailed abstractions and predictions about the world, which enables complex voluntary actions to be undertaken that do not have immediate payoffs.  This is not a terribly common adaptation, and of those species that have started undertaking that path, only ours has reached this level of sophistication (that we are aware of.)  Since we are capable of this level of abstraction, but continue to act in very 1-dimensional terms (especially as regards economic policy!), the ethical issue I have is failure to actually BE human, in how we conduct ourselves.  Take for instance, the wasp species in general.  Sure, we could say "It's just terrible that wasps die to make fruit-- Especially since humans artificially amplify the apparent evolutionary fitness of the figs that are killing them!"- The natural outcome there is "We should plant fewer figs"-- but this is not a full understanding of the interconnected nature of things.  Figs (especially those that have been selectively bred) have been adapting to having human assistance, because it is RADICALLY beneficial for them. Humans have adapted to having figs as a food source.  Insects have a very rapid generational turnover, meaning they could potentially evolve very quickly.  Humans and fig trees, not so much.  Rather than assert foolishly that we should stop growing figs (which is harmful not only to us, and the fig trees, but also to the many other lifeforms that have trophic web connections with the fig tree and to humans), but rather to ask how we can offset the difference in mortality rates the wasps suffer from our scaled up, assisted reproduction of the figs.

That is to say, how can we assure that the wasp population is able to not go into decline, and to assist the wasp on its path toward not being extinct in the face of our partnership with the fig trees.  The most obvious, is that we find some clear partnership with the wasps as well, since the wasps are an essential part in the fruit's cultivation.  Working out how to improve fecudnity and general population health of the wasp species, and then enacting that plan, is what needs to be considered. Not getting into a hot lather over fruit.

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Iduno

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152882 on: August 13, 2020, 09:41:42 pm »

"We destroyed the bridge to our closest ally to stop the flying lizards from getting here!"

wait what

7th dragon no, you were doing okay up until you decided to burn bridges to "slow down" an army of flight capable monsters

why

That is only acceptable if the immediately showed the dragons just flying over the bridge.

Saw the title too.  Didnt click it though.  Firefox loves spamming the clickbait on the 'blank page' homepage I use.

Try setting it to about:blank and see if that helps.
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Mathel

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152883 on: August 14, 2020, 05:03:48 am »

About wasps: One way would be what I already do. Not slaying wasps unless they are actively harmful. I do not care if a wasp is pollinating some flower or eating a rotting apple outside. If the wasp is inside, or if it forms a nest somewhere, where I need to be working, I will care, but otherwise no.

Another, but this would mean adapting slightly, would be to take the care to transport offending nests, rather than destroying them. Obviously, proper protection would need to be worn for such a job.


My WTF:
Tonight, I had a dream in which I messed up while spreading jam over my bread and clanged my knife on my dish. My dad ordered me not to clang (which he does do in such situations), which angered me and we started arguing.

Then during breakfast, I was reaching for blackberries, I clipped my glass with my elbow and it started toppling onto my lap and then the floor. I reacted with my other hand and deflected it onto the table, but my hand passed through the space my knife was occupying, causing a clanging sound.
My mom complained about having water on her dish (we have a small table), my dad ordered me not to clang. I explained to mum that I had to react to prevent the glass from breaking and complained about dad telling us to not do loud noises when we do them accidentaly. But, having thought about the dream, I went about it more diplomaticaly and there was much less arguing.
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152884 on: August 14, 2020, 05:30:50 am »

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hops

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152885 on: August 14, 2020, 05:33:14 am »

You guys' Firefox clickbait articles suck. I just get neat science stuffs.
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152886 on: August 14, 2020, 05:34:00 am »

I prefer dirty science. The naughty stuff.
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Rolan7

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152887 on: August 14, 2020, 05:57:09 am »

Let's see:
1) Ouija Board history
2) US politics
3) How to use AI for spam emails "personalized messages that cut through the noise" (sponsored)
4) Climate change causing a drought out West
5) Ad for database dashboard software (sponsored)
6) A greener alternative to [namebrand] disinfectant wipes (supposedly not sponsored)

About standard, I don't mind and I assume it's supporting Mozilla.  Sometimes I even clickthrough to an article.  I don't pretend to be immune to targeted advertising, but this feature sometimes feels like a print newspaper and the clickbait is the funnies.
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152888 on: August 14, 2020, 05:59:22 am »

Saw the title too.  Didnt click it though.  Firefox loves spamming the clickbait on the 'blank page' homepage I use.

Try setting it to about:blank and see if that helps.

Yeah, not sure what's up for you pisskop. The two choices in Firefox are "Blank Page" which is literally blank, or the default homepage, but everything on that can optionally be turned on/off - so there are two options and both of them can be set to completely blank. I can't find any option to have news stories appearing in there.

So, is this a custom add-on you're using that gives a 'blank page' that actually has news in it? because that's not a thing in standard firefox as far as I can tell. And then I'd fail to see how this is a thing that Firefox likes doing, specifically.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 06:06:08 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152889 on: August 14, 2020, 06:08:12 am »

The default does contain some curated content, which includes clickbait from time to time.

I just ignore it.

Specifically the "Recommended by Pocket" section.
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Rolan7

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152890 on: August 14, 2020, 06:09:05 am »

Yeah it sounds like the "Recommended by Pocket" section.  The three-dot button to configure/disable it is invisible until you mouse over the section.  It's definitely stock though, I happened to do a fresh Windows install yesterday with fresh Mozilla to test something else.  It even has different recommendations, they're smart enough not to let on that they know me by IP ;P
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This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152891 on: August 14, 2020, 06:13:36 am »

Yeah it sounds like the "Recommended by Pocket" section.  The three-dot button to configure/disable it is invisible until you mouse over the section.  It's definitely stock though, I happened to do a fresh Windows install yesterday with fresh Mozilla to test something else.  It even has different recommendations, they're smart enough not to let on that they know me by IP ;P

Or rather than the extra-suspicious

I wonder how to get that to appear then. Maybe you need a pocket account. If I try and save to pocket, it fails and says I need an account. I think I deactivated Pocket long ago, and as a result, i have no Recommended by Pocket section. What I think happens is that on a fresh install they generate an anonymous pocket account, and you can save to that if you want, or you can log into an existing account if you want it portable (or use the anonymous account for a while before setting up for proper).

So the reason you're seeing unknown recommendations is because Pocket isn't tied to your IP address. Each new install gets a new random pocket account with no name or email attached.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 06:20:14 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152892 on: August 14, 2020, 06:16:32 am »

I have never set up a Pocket account.

It is not necessary.  It does tracking, as rolan points out-- They use the "Facebook shadow tracking" type of thing, where even if you dont have a pocket account, they still track you as a unique data source, and curate content based on browsing habits.


As stated, it does occasionally present clickbait.
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152893 on: August 14, 2020, 06:21:13 am »

Each install gets a different Pocket account however unless you actually go and convert one into a real account then manually sync them between installs. It is different to the type of tracking you're talking about.

So ... I'd argue it's a stretch to call this a tracking tool. the pocket accounts are created with random keys each time you install the browser and are specific to that install.

And there is really no evidence that they're using Pocket to store data about your general browsing habits. you need to manually tag things for them to be saved in pocket.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 06:24:13 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #152894 on: August 14, 2020, 06:23:32 am »

Correct-- they do not have a human identity associated-- Each install is tracked uniquely. However, it is not that hard to very reliably correlate data patterns into a single entity.  Many papers have been written about that.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/24/researchers-spotlight-the-lie-of-anonymous-data/

They only need 15 points of data to 99.9% accurately consolidate multiple use streams into a single user profile.

The question, is "Does POCKET do that?"

I don't know.  pointing out that they COULD, is not the same thing.  Facebook was actively caught DOING that.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 06:25:04 am by wierd »
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