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Author Topic: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread  (Read 33760 times)

Urist is dead tome

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2010, 04:28:29 pm »

My thoughts on this are to expand liquor varieties. Adding lager and making ale a type of beer. Also hard liquor and fuel for all booze-making.
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2010, 11:26:01 pm »

Great list, I agree with everything but this: Water needed for brewing.
You only need water to produce beer/ale/lager/YouKnowWhatIHaveOnMind; other booze is made by squeezing the fruits (mushrooms, whatever), fermenting the product and then distilling it. No water included except for diluting and that is undwarvenlike.

Water for brewing tasks and fuel for distilling tasks, then? I'm not all that familiar with the processes in making various alcohols, but some sort of easy rule so players know when fuel or water would be needed would be ideal.
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TolyK

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2010, 12:36:04 pm »

as I understand it some basic drinks wouldn't require water, but more exotic drinks would get more.

however, using water with the basic drinks would add 1/2 a barrel of booze (necessary diluting) making exotic drinks better is better imo
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Vattic

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2010, 09:34:08 pm »

They have been mentioned in passing but pies should definitely be added. Sweet (fruits, nuts, cheese) or savoury (meat, fish, eggs, cheese) with spices in a flour, fat, and water case. They can be used to store food over long journeys; Historically used at sea. Perfect for storing food that dwarves can heat for themselves later. Pie vendors in cities for the peasants and any adventurers.

Quote
The Oxford English Dictionary traces the first use of the word "pie" as it relates to food to 1303, noting the word was well-known and popular by 1362.
And they were made since long before that, although flaky pastries with fruit are outside are post 1440.

Lots more info on pies and their history.
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cog disso

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2010, 09:07:30 pm »

Basic refrigeration is possible. You would need access to ice (so a temperate/cold biome) and it would need to be fashioned into blocks, which would be stored in a special space surrounded by artificial stone so that it doesn't contaminate. Basically, you'd have to "mine" a certain amount of ice blocks and store them in a certain size space to last all summer, but this is technologically minimal, and well within the setting's tech scope.

There is Rock Salt, so it occurs to me that it may be possible to manufacture ice cream in this setting. It would be an EXTREME luxury item, but one that an entire civilization could decide is their crowning achievement (why wouldn't it be?)

SPECIAL BUILDING: CREAMERY

Necessary Equipment:

- Adjacent Farmer's Station
- Barrels (for milk)
- Rock Salt supply
- Cold biome
- Ingredients (1 Milk, 1 Dwarven Sugar, 1 Matrix Substrate (Sweet or Savoury))
- Buckets for storage

New Job Requirement: Creamer.

Like mist, dwarven ice cream generates intense levels of happiness. Unlike mist, it's less of a calculated risk to the fortress itself and more of a highly specialized freedom of workforce. Obviously, fortresses have much better things to be doing than making ice cream, but it's a wildly prestigious activity. 

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vadia

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2010, 10:39:07 pm »

There is Rock Salt, so it occurs to me that it may be possible to manufacture ice cream in this setting. It would be an EXTREME luxury item, but one that an entire civilization could decide is their crowning achievement (why wouldn't it be?)
.... a wildly prestigious activity.

Not without chocolate  :P
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cog disso

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2010, 10:49:27 pm »

There is Rock Salt, so it occurs to me that it may be possible to manufacture ice cream in this setting. It would be an EXTREME luxury item, but one that an entire civilization could decide is their crowning achievement (why wouldn't it be?)
.... a wildly prestigious activity.

Not without chocolate  :P

What do you think Plump Helmet Men taste like?

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, ice cream existed in Europe for centuries before the discovery of chocolate. The knowledge of how to make it was a royal secret, so that the prestige of serving it at banquets could be maintained. Much like how medieval gingerbread resembles nothing like the gingersnap-esque things we eat at Christmas nowadays, medieval ice cream was almost like an extremely butterfatty gelato. It was spiced heavily (to reflect the status of the royalty that had access to spices) and containing a lot of nuts and fruits.

Maybe the capability to produce ice cream should be more tied to the previously mentioned banqueting mechanic, as the capper to the meal.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 11:03:42 pm by cog disso »
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vadia

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2010, 08:56:53 am »

There is Rock Salt, so it occurs to me that it may be possible to manufacture ice cream in this setting. It would be an EXTREME luxury item, but one that an entire civilization could decide is their crowning achievement (why wouldn't it be?)
.... a wildly prestigious activity.

Not without chocolate  :P

read what I quoted.

I meant; it wouldn't be extreme luxury or wildly prestigious w/o chocolate.
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2010, 07:04:21 pm »

I'll get pies and ice cream added into the list soon. I wasn't aware of the versatility of pies as a preservation method.
The idea of re-heating something makes more sense when adding savory pies as a preservation method, so I'll make more of an effort to fit that in. Ideally if all the suggestions can be made to make sense with one another, I try to do so.
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Fidna

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #99 on: December 10, 2010, 02:59:22 pm »

Ice cream (such as it was; it wasn't really the same as modern ice cream) wasn't necessarily always reserved for the wealthy (it was in certain places, like England, but not everywhere). In the ancient Middle East it was actually fairly common; ice and snow would be imported and stored in these large underground chambers that were cooled via tall hollow towers to capture cool winds, while keeping the heat out. It was just flavoured with fruit juices and cheap spices usually (I recall one recipe recorded my first an Arab author and later repeated by an Italian monk, where it was essentially plums or figs and peppercorns ground into ice to make for a cold spicy plum-flavored slushy-like dessert).

In some places chilled foods were eaten by common labourers because it kept them cool while they worked. Though to make such a thing affordable required being able to keep and store large quantities of ice and snow with what were in effect huge old school iceboxes, which was doable for very wealthy cities (who mimicked the iron age Persian techniques of large ice-containing caverns), it was more of a trick for smaller places where it'd need to be imported. It was popular for the Romans to just import huge amounts of ice from mountains and pour wine, fruit juices, and mix in nuts and sliced pieces of fruit; naturally that was more expensive, and the Romans didn't often use large storage areas for such things (some existed in the empire's territories in the east but they were probably pre-existing and were just co-opted), leaving them more the purvue of wealthy men, though that itself had kind of a point. It was pretty impressive to show your friends you're so damn rich you can cart in snow in the middle of summer just to eat it while having bizarre orgies and mocking the poor, or whatever it is the idle rich did in those days.

However, point is, that wasn't necessarily true everywhere, even places where acquiring such large amounts of ice and snow was difficult, but that was more an issue of storage.

Edit: Also; not all alcohol should require water. There are some very cheap, disgusting forms of alcohol that are not made with any water, just fermenting juices and a yeast of some sort usually. Such things should probably have a high chance to cause ill effects in whoever drinks them (nausea, unconsciousness, etc.), but they should be an option for producing booze for your dwarves when you're lacking other options.

Also, very poor quality brewing should potentially cause severely bad effects, like blindness. That occurs when producing liquor without disposing of the waste of it. While highly alcoholic, the first stuff that comes out of a still is also insanely poisonous and has to be tossed away once it's done coming out (what comes next is the actual drinkable liquor that's less likely to kill you unless you drink way, way too much). Stills should maybe also produce fumes (and too close to a major heat source, like a forge, said fumes could ignite, if one wants to be real mean about it; though even the heat of the still can itself cause a very large explosion if the fumes are too thick; proper ventilation is extremely important).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 03:05:33 pm by Fidna »
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AngleWyrm

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2010, 11:56:51 pm »

Ice used to be mined and stored in Ice houses, which date back as far as 1700 BC.
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TolyK

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2010, 03:30:54 am »

houses built of ice? As in, what I'm doing right now in the open ocean  ;D

yeah
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Waparius

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2010, 11:57:48 pm »

I checked the list on page one, but I'm not sure so I'll ask - has anybody explicitly mentioned that juices and milks should be drinkable?

It's obvious, but just in case.
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uttaku

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #103 on: December 13, 2010, 05:08:37 am »

I feel I should point out with regards to the above post that wine is made from pure grape juice, no added water......
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Sunken

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #104 on: December 13, 2010, 04:36:50 pm »

There is Rock Salt, so it occurs to me that it may be possible to manufacture ice cream in this setting. It would be an EXTREME luxury item, but one that an entire civilization could decide is their crowning achievement (why wouldn't it be?)

You're referring to this, I don't doubt.
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