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Author Topic: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)  (Read 105376 times)

Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #150 on: May 31, 2011, 08:28:27 pm »

Short bows have been named wrong in the item raw. Names are short bows:short bows, should be short bow:short bows

Fixed up, thank you. It'll be in proper singular form next release.

First post FTW!

A little late by about 10 pages, but good show.

I've just installed the mod and I'm really liking it however I've come across a problem. I'm using the pre-packaged game and queued an order for a bone spear from the Scrimshawer workshop, I had a stack of 11 yak bones and to my annoyance they where all used making only one spear.  :(

I'm not sure whether this is a problem with the mod or DF, but does anyone know a way around it or better still a fix!  :)

Unfortunately this, if memory serves, is an issue with general DF. It treats a stack of items as a single item for crafting purposes, and I don't recall a way to seperate the stacks. If there is a workaround, I'd love to know.
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JackSlinger

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #151 on: June 01, 2011, 06:12:10 am »

My first post on these forums :P

If there was a way to split up the stack of bones that might be a workaround like you said, I hope a solution is found because when playing kobold every bone counts!

Slightly of topic if I abandon a fortress in dwarf mode can I then reclaim it playing as kobold? Hope so! :D

Edit: just found this
Quote
Elephant hides are worth a lot, and i would presume elephant bones would be too.  If you butcher an elephant you'll get one skin, one large stack of bones, plus other stuff.  Each bone can make 5 elephant bone bolts, or the entire stack of bones can be used to do a single decoration, because decorations consume the entire stack.  Absurd.

Now, throw the elephant off a 20z+ tower and let it land in a room with high walls.  The elephant will explode into pieces, and limbs will separate.  Each limb will be butchered separately.  The main body of the elephant will again give 1 skin and 1 stack of bones, but each limb butchered will also give 1 skin, a single bone, and at least 1 meat.  If you're butchering livestock for the leather or for bone decoration, by using the explosion method you've effectively increased your output by a factor of 5 per animal.

Far from perfect but might work I'll try it
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 06:25:44 am by JackSlinger »
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Necro910

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2011, 11:08:22 am »

Due to the recent stir in Kobold Fandom, I'm downloading. I love these little guys ^-^

I'm going to make an execution tower, like Jack said. More meat for the Cutebolds :))

JackSlinger

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2011, 01:27:03 pm »

Bean doing some science with a drop tower http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85857.0 the animals explode fine and i asume the body parts will rot to give bones. Unfortunatly the exploded parts of tame animals are not butcherable which can lead to trouble as kobolds can only eat meat. At some advice I was given i'm going to try and make it so kobold can eat and butcher everything but other kobold, which will be hard given my complete lack of dwarf fortress modding skills.

That should make the goblin ambushes more FUN especially for the goblins :P
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Necro910

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #154 on: June 02, 2011, 03:46:44 pm »

What would be the best weapon to be made from bone? I heard bone spears are terrible, so I'm wondering what else is bad. I'm making a mace for now, but that's just because Kobold fists aren't exactly lethal.

monk12

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2011, 08:51:38 pm »

What would be the best weapon to be made from bone? I heard bone spears are terrible, so I'm wondering what else is bad. I'm making a mace for now, but that's just because Kobold fists aren't exactly lethal.

Bone everything is pretty terrible, honestly. My advice is archer spam.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #156 on: June 07, 2011, 08:08:23 pm »

My first post on these forums :P

If there was a way to split up the stack of bones that might be a workaround like you said, I hope a solution is found because when playing kobold every bone counts!

Slightly of topic if I abandon a fortress in dwarf mode can I then reclaim it playing as kobold? Hope so! :D

Edit: just found this
Quote
Elephant hides are worth a lot, and i would presume elephant bones would be too.  If you butcher an elephant you'll get one skin, one large stack of bones, plus other stuff.  Each bone can make 5 elephant bone bolts, or the entire stack of bones can be used to do a single decoration, because decorations consume the entire stack.  Absurd.

Now, throw the elephant off a 20z+ tower and let it land in a room with high walls.  The elephant will explode into pieces, and limbs will separate.  Each limb will be butchered separately.  The main body of the elephant will again give 1 skin and 1 stack of bones, but each limb butchered will also give 1 skin, a single bone, and at least 1 meat.  If you're butchering livestock for the leather or for bone decoration, by using the explosion method you've effectively increased your output by a factor of 5 per animal.

Far from perfect but might work I'll try it
It would still be nice if there was a reaction to turn small numbers of many stcks of bone into large numbers of small stacks of bones.
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Abregado

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #157 on: June 08, 2011, 09:19:26 pm »

could put in "stone clubs and axes" from Quartzite gems. Other quartz like stones could be used to (Chert/Flint for course). Or even just make a Big Rock weapon to bash things with.

Qwernt

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2011, 01:45:20 pm »

So, where's the wiki?  I played kob's a long time ago, before all the new fangled weapons and shops... so I have NO idea what I can and can't do.  Example, I see wooden mechanisms.  Great!  Now, what are the other traps and how are they different from vanilla traps?  And the weapon descriptions.  And what from the standard shops is usuable and what isn't.  Example: I see you can make leather beds... does that mean you can't use normal wood ones or is it a player restriction type of a thing?
etc
etc
etc

I love the flavor though.  Unfortunately, orgeress ended the first Kamp, Harpies the second...  Got to find a nice gentle spot to settle down, haunted might be too difficult to start with.
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carabide

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2011, 03:27:20 pm »

I agree with Qwernt, I was wondering if there would be a wiki made to help us newer kobold lovers to learn about the different sparkly toys you have given us.
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Qwernt

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2011, 05:04:44 pm »

A few things I have learned:

Wood Stalks can be stripped to make logs (takes a 4 stalks to make 1 log) & Wood Stalks can be processed into blocks.  1 stalk for 1 block.

Wood Mechanisms are just like rock ones. Everything else from the trap show is a wooden weapon to put in a S(pear) trap.

Elves with swords own kobolds with bows.  Completely.  I enabled war training on all the buyable animals, and my war horses saved me.  Related note - Leather Bone Armor is about as good as it sounds... I assume this is why kobs are famous for their traps... time to build BIG traps.
Cage Traps don't always catch things (I assume this is a recent DF feature.  I had an elf run over a given cage trap 4 times before it caught him).  At least it looked like he ran past the trap line multiple times.

Embark somewhere with Clay and bring a rock or some clay for your first kiln.  Free clay walls are MUCH better than wooden ones. Wood becomes a priority resource.  And on that note, train farmers and bring LOTS of woodstalk seeds so that you can have large Wood Stalk farms.
More to follow...
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carabide

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2011, 05:26:40 pm »

Thanks! I have already started to feel the pressure from the lack of wood.
Btw, have you figured out how to get the throwing hammers to work? I have tried putting them in a squad, and attacking some random animals, but they just continue to try to melee them.
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Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2011, 11:48:55 am »

So, where's the wiki?  I played kob's a long time ago, before all the new fangled weapons and shops... so I have NO idea what I can and can't do.  Example, I see wooden mechanisms.  Great!  Now, what are the other traps and how are they different from vanilla traps?  And the weapon descriptions.  And what from the standard shops is usuable and what isn't.  Example: I see you can make leather beds... does that mean you can't use normal wood ones or is it a player restriction type of a thing?
etc
etc
etc

I love the flavor though.  Unfortunately, orgeress ended the first Kamp, Harpies the second...  Got to find a nice gentle spot to settle down, haunted might be too difficult to start with.

I'd question the worth of a wiki, but that is a fair point that I have added enough in that not everything is obvious. There is information in the readme about the different buildings, but I'll try and make it more detailed in future versions. To answer most of your given questions: Most of the new traps are primarily flavor, but the actual application doesn't change from vanilla; it boils down to make a trap and cram it full of weapon traps. Quantity being more important than quality I've found (not a promise.)

And yes, you can make leather beds but also wood beds, as since wood is so valuable I made leather beds available so that one wouldn't have to use wood on it.

All in all, I've tried to make this mod to minimize the amount of self-restraint the player would have to do; i.e. making much stone unmineable as opposed to 40d, where if kobolds couldn't mind the player just had to avoid rock.

The weapons, however, are a weak point. It wasn't like 40d where you say "this is how big the weapon is, and this is how much damage it does." To date I just haven't had a good grasp on weapon balance, as the traits were never clear to me how they interact with each other.

It would still be nice if there was a reaction to turn small numbers of many stcks of bone into large numbers of small stacks of bones.

It would, but there's no way I can tell to make it accurate; that is, no way a reaction can tell how many bones are in a stack. Therefore, if I did such a reaction, chances are either you'd get more bones than you gave, or got less bones than given. I'm hoping that Toady will address stack issues before too long.

Thanks! I have already started to feel the pressure from the lack of wood.
Btw, have you figured out how to get the throwing hammers to work? I have tried putting them in a squad, and attacking some random animals, but they just continue to try to melee them.

Last I checked using projectiles generally worked, but sometimes military did still have bugs I found, such as arming kobolds with sword and shield, then they toss their sword away and start bashing things with their shields. So, I can't say it's not a glitch, but to double check, there's actually two components to throwing hammers.
DF as I recall doesn't support military actually -throwing- items, therefore, to make throwing hammers useable, I had to implement throwing gloves. This works in the same manner is a bow and arrow; where the throwing gloves act as the "firing mechanism" and the throwing hammers act as the ammo. If you are arming them with the throwing gloves and they're just hitting animals with that in melee, then chances are it's glitched and unfortunately you may be best off using a different weapon.

A few things I have learned:

Wood Stalks can be stripped to make logs (takes a 4 stalks to make 1 log) & Wood Stalks can be processed into blocks.  1 stalk for 1 block.

Wood Mechanisms are just like rock ones. Everything else from the trap show is a wooden weapon to put in a S(pear) trap.

Elves with swords own kobolds with bows.  Completely.  I enabled war training on all the buyable animals, and my war horses saved me.  Related note - Leather Bone Armor is about as good as it sounds... I assume this is why kobs are famous for their traps... time to build BIG traps.
Cage Traps don't always catch things (I assume this is a recent DF feature.  I had an elf run over a given cage trap 4 times before it caught him).  At least it looked like he ran past the trap line multiple times.

Embark somewhere with Clay and bring a rock or some clay for your first kiln.  Free clay walls are MUCH better than wooden ones. Wood becomes a priority resource.  And on that note, train farmers and bring LOTS of woodstalk seeds so that you can have large Wood Stalk farms.
More to follow...

Haven't tested KC much beyond making sure it actually works, so I'm glad that clay is working as it should apparently. All in all, quite good advice. And yes, I doubt the cage traps not working is a KC thing, so chances are it's a vanilla feature. As for elves with swords owning kobolds with bows.. well, bows and arrows aren't the unstoppable deadly force they were in 40d so I'm not surprised. It does go in with building traps; there's no shame in making a single, long hallway filled to the brim with traps; indeed that's very likely the only way to survive for long periods. Very rare is the camp (past 40d anyway) that I've had a kobold military that can go toe to toe with enemy sieges.
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thatkid

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #163 on: June 13, 2011, 04:55:18 pm »

Hey guys, I saw that the altar had no reactions or anything of that sort so I decided to make a small ritual process. With these tokens, the Kobold's spiritual leaders (those who work Alchemy) will now be able to construct fetishes with which they can enact short heathen rituals to their various gods. In response, the deities may smile on them by giving them useless gems and trinkets, an obsidian boulder with which to arm themselves, or perhaps something even better. Alternatively, the latent magic of the ritual may consume the fetish without granting any items, or the Gods may grow tired of constantly being annoyed and, depending on their mood, smite the Kobold with a long-lasting curse of varying strength.

Put these in a reaction folder:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Put these in an inorganic folder:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, add this to the entity files:
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BONE_FETISH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:WOOD_FETISH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:A_RITUAL]

Optionally, you can also add something like [PROFESSION_NAME:ALCHEMIST:lesser shaman:lesser shamans] to the kobold creature entry for flavor.

I haven't had much time to test it out yet, but it should be working as intended. I also have yet to witness any of the curses, so I'm not entirely sure how debilitating they really are (I'm guessing smiteded is basically an instant-kill, but even if it's not it should be a little horrific anyways). I'm also a little worried that it will cause kobolds to have access to cotton candy armor in worldgen, but I haven't seen it happen yet. As well, the probabilities look right but one can never be sure. Hopefully I made it dangerous enough an undertaking that spamming rituals in the hopes of getting candy isn't actually worth the loss of kobold. If anyone comes up with better ideas for products -and/or- probabilities, feel free to add them in/make alterations. These reactions are pretty much out of my hands at this point.

(Props to narhiril over at Forlorn Realms for inspiring my little foray into reactions, as well as Patchouli in the same thread who along with narhiril explained how to go about doing this sort of thing)

As a side note, you currently need 2 bone OR 2 wood, and 3 hair as well as a totem (made from a skull at the crafts shop) in order to fashion a fetish.
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Dsarker

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #164 on: June 14, 2011, 07:44:54 am »

That looks really good, thanks for that!

Edit: should "smiteded" be "smited"?
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