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[delphonso]

Last night, I put down my phone and it started reboot constantly. I noticed only because it vibrated every minute or so as part of the reboot.

Nothing could interrupt the cycle, and so I set it out to wait for the battery to kill itself. I woke up this morning with it still in the loop, but an emergency menu had appeared.

My phone...seems to have gotten over whatever it was going through.

[Reelya]

This must be peak Sovereign Citizen.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/31/us/hartford-sword-homicide-trnd/index.html

A Connecticut man decapitated his landlord with a sword after being told he had to move out because of overdue rent, Hartford police say.
...
When questioned by police, Thompson refused to speak but wrote on a sheet of paper that the "paper in glove compart in Jeep is all you need," the detectives said.

Once a search warrant was obtained, police found paperwork suggesting Thompson believed he was a "sovereign citizen," or an individual who believes he is not subject to any statutes and interprets the laws in their own way, the detectives wrote.

[Bumber]

Guess they'll have to try him on terrorism or war crimes instead.

[dragdeler]

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[Maximum Spin]

they believe germany is no formal nation but secretly a corporation.

Exactly the same here. The claim seems to be that the federation of states called the United States of America was dissolved some time ago and replaced by a corporation that coincidentally has the same name, governed by the Uniform Commercial Code, but also sometimes admiralty law for some reason, depending on whether there are fringes on the flag.

[KittyTac]

We have similar stuff in Russia. Mostly the oligarchs. Honestly, slightly closer to the truth than the other conspiracy theories. Think the rich in America have a lot of power? In Russia they have even more.

I think most large countries have this sort of conspiracy theories.

[ChairmanPoo]

No, you don't get it. Sovereign citizens think they are not bound to follow the law because the state is not real, but a standing corporation, and that by refusing to "enter contracts with it" (eg: evading taxes)  they can safely ignore it.

To clarify: they are random nobodies who think they can ignore the law because it doesn't suit them, just by saying so. They dont have economical or political clout to manipulate judges or goverments, and indeed thats not their aim: they believe they have a right to do all that just because.
Sovereign citizens tend to have hard collisions with reality.

[Eschar]

I mean, their existence does kinda bring up an interesting.point. Why is anyone bound by laws in the first place. They're the laws of the country in which you reside, which is a privilege granted in relation to you "keeping the peace," i.e. not breaking the bounds your fellow citizens (assuming a functioning democracy) have decided they need. That's fair. The practical side of the matter. But in the first place, nobody decided to be born in a country.

Oh wait, citizenship is basically a contract, right? So most of us are in that contract automatically. Sorry, SovCits, you've already engaged in a contract. So if they're correct and don't want to actually enter into contracts with the govt, they shouldn't be still living here.

[McTraveller]

Welcome to political science + philosophy 101 - "Does simply existing obligate you to some/anything?"

[ChairmanPoo]

Why is anyone bound by laws in the first place

Alternatively: because the state has a monopoly on law enforcement by whatever means are necessary.  In other words: random hobos cannot choose not to be bound by the laws of the state because the state can force those laws upon them

[Reelya]

Welcome to political science + philosophy 101 - "Does simply existing obligate you to some/anything?"

Of course, as soon as you take any actions, that's not longer definable as simply existing. Also, this basis implies that the right to exist is innate and value-free. However, everyone else could just kill you as soon as you start to exist and that's also consistent with the idea that just existing doesn't obligate you to anything. Being obligated to nothing also means you're not obligate to respect anyone else's rights.

This is why we have rules, since the same rules enforce the notion that you have the "right" to exist and constrain others from impacting on your "right". Fundamentally, "rights" only exist as part of the system of rules itself. That's why Sovereign Citizens are idiots. If they're truly outside the system then there's nothing to stop us just shooting or enslaving them. It's a philosophical oxymoron, they go "I'm not bound by your rules!" but if anyone else does anything to them they go "but ... you just can't do that, it's against the rules!" Maybe the cop just chooses not to recognize the rule that says he can't tazer and arrest the Sovereign Citizen? :/

[Naturegirl1999]

Not everyone needs laws to tell them to not enslave people. Even is slavery were legal, I wouldn’t do it

[Eschar]

Not everyone needs laws to tell them to not enslave people. Even is slavery were legal, I wouldn’t do it

It sounds like Reelya is referring to a more general concept of rules, which laws are particular, concrete instantiations of.

Also I wanted to use the word instantiation.

[dragdeler]

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[Rolan7]

Of course, as soon as you take any actions, that's not longer definable as simply existing. Also, this basis implies that the right to exist is innate and value-free. However, everyone else could just kill you as soon as you start to exist and that's also consistent with the idea that just existing doesn't obligate you to anything. Being obligated to nothing also means you're not obligate to respect anyone else's rights.

And even taking no action is usually an action!  Or, at least, a decision.
And many actions are reflexive, such that we never make a decision.