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Author Topic: A Better Magma Pump Stack  (Read 147593 times)

NecroRebel

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 02:30:45 pm »

With my 80 z-level pump stack...

I went from 7 fps to 83.
Impressive, and very, very nice  :D

Can you switch your pump stack off? What FPS do you get without it running at all? For !!SCIENCE!!, you understand  8)
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A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

*Poster*

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2010, 02:34:37 pm »

Definitely a candidate for a !!Science!! Award of some description.
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Vehudur

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2010, 02:41:01 pm »

With my 80 z-level pump stack...

I went from 7 fps to 83.
Impressive, and very, very nice  :D

Can you switch your pump stack off? What FPS do you get without it running at all? For !!SCIENCE!!, you understand  8)

I don't think I can shut it off right now, but if I had to guess it'd be around 87-90.

I would have, personally, even with how good of an increase is expected I would not have expected nearly 1 fps per level of pump stack.  There must be something else that went on.  I will investigate further under better controls, you know, for !!science!!.


Also, yes, I nominate the OP for !!magma!! science of the month award.
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Trouserman

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2010, 03:51:31 pm »

=====
=+++=
==.==

==+==
==.==
=====


Red squares are kept warm at all times. Basically, it's just a standard pump stack with the single output tile extended into a 3x1 reservoir. Magma fills the 2 extra cross tiles on the T-shape, and those two magma-filled tiles keep the tiles next to the pumping tile on the same z-level warm, reducing required temperature recalculations just as the version I posted last night. This version would be very easy to retrofit as well; just dig or channel out those extra tiles on every level, then let each level fill.

Do those extra cross tiles stay filled in this design, though?  Each pump is outputting to the intake tile of the pump above, so it will be sucked up before it has a chance to spread to the cross tiles.  Meanwhile, fluid from the cross tiles will spread to the intake tile, and eventually be depleted.  With the head-over-head design, the magma in the output tile can spread both to the next pump's intake, and to replenish the cross tiles.  Or so it seems to me.

Perhaps head-over-head like this, instead of the full 3x3 reservoir?

=====
=+++=
==+==
==.==
==+==
==.==
=====
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NecroRebel

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 04:11:51 pm »

Do those extra cross tiles stay filled in this design, though?  Each pump is outputting to the intake tile of the pump above, so it will be sucked up before it has a chance to spread to the cross tiles.  Meanwhile, fluid from the cross tiles will spread to the intake tile, and eventually be depleted.  With the head-over-head design, the magma in the output tile can spread both to the next pump's intake, and to replenish the cross tiles.  Or so it seems to me.
That is a concern. I suspect that if you let the cross tiles fill before you run the stack that they won't empty very quickly, or at all, as the pump's filling of the input tile takes precedence over simple fluid spreading. However, if the input at the bottom of the stack doesn't fill quick enough, you'd start getting 2/7 tiles pulled up, and then spreading would being to be an issue.

That T-shaped design also isn't very extendible; the full 3x3 one you could extend endlessly, but the T-shaped one if you get more than 2 pumps long you start getting squares that aren't always next to magma, like this:

=======
=++
+++=
==.
..==
==+++==
==...==
=======


As only the two tiles at the ends of the T's crossbar would usually be filled and the other 3 would be pump input tiles.

Quote
Perhaps head-over-head like this, instead of the full 3x3 reservoir?

=====
=+++=
==+==
==.==
==+==
==.==
=====

I'm not sure how much of an improvement this is, since fluids often don't path diagonally very well. I'm worried that the supply pump's output wouldn't go into the ends of the T any more than they would without the head-over-head design.

Hm. A 2x3 reservoir would solve that concern, though:

=====
=+++=
=+++=
==.==

==+==
==.==
=====


We're getting back similar to the first design, of course, though it is a small improvement in its compactibility. Not as extendible as the original design, though I'm not 100% sure how well the extensibility would work with the original given that you'd have a wall of input squares blocking the far side of the reservoir from refills. Someone should apply !!SCIENCE!! to the T-shaped designs, though. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to do it myself for a while at least, as I lost the fort that I had been testing on to a bunch of Nightwings.
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A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

thijser

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2010, 03:37:30 am »

=====
==+==
=+++=
==+==
==.==
==+==
==.==
=====
And what happens if you make it like this?
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NecroRebel

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2010, 01:26:05 pm »

See my comments on this design:

=====
=+++=
==+==
==.==
==+==
==.==
=====


Do those extra cross tiles stay filled in this design, though?  Each pump is outputting to the intake tile of the pump above, so it will be sucked up before it has a chance to spread to the cross tiles.  Meanwhile, fluid from the cross tiles will spread to the intake tile, and eventually be depleted.  With the head-over-head design, the magma in the output tile can spread both to the next pump's intake, and to replenish the cross tiles.  Or so it seems to me.
That is a concern. I suspect that if you let the cross tiles fill before you run the stack that they won't empty very quickly, or at all, as the pump's filling of the input tile takes precedence over simple fluid spreading. However, if the input at the bottom of the stack doesn't fill quick enough, you'd start getting 2/7 tiles pulled up, and then spreading would being to be an issue.

[-snip-]

]I'm not sure how much of an improvement this is, since fluids often don't path diagonally very well. I'm worried that the supply pump's output wouldn't go into the ends of the T any more than they would without the head-over-head design.
I think the extra top square at the top is superfluous, since it doesn't keep anything warm that the two wing tiles on the T don't, while also having the problem of "will magma get to them?"
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A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

doomdome

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2010, 06:11:22 pm »

That's hot.

The only downside I can see is that this design can't be fully "cleared" by shutting off primary access to the magma.
You could have a lever-linked hatch over the input square of the bottom pump. Open it, and the pumps fill the reservoirs, but close it and the pumps will keep working, eventually emptying each floors' little reservoir to 1/7 all around, which will then dry. It would take significantly longer to clear than a standard stack, but would be possible. [...]
Or you could have the central tile in each of the 3x3 areas be a switch-ed hatch (same switch as the one which turns off the pumps, or would they be opposite then?), with the bottom dumping back into your magma source. When you pull the switch to turn off the pumps, the 3x3 areas will all dump their magma into your magma sea/volcano/pipe.
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Vehudur

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2010, 06:51:56 pm »

That's hot.

The only downside I can see is that this design can't be fully "cleared" by shutting off primary access to the magma.
You could have a lever-linked hatch over the input square of the bottom pump. Open it, and the pumps fill the reservoirs, but close it and the pumps will keep working, eventually emptying each floors' little reservoir to 1/7 all around, which will then dry. It would take significantly longer to clear than a standard stack, but would be possible. [...]
Or you could have the central tile in each of the 3x3 areas be a switch-ed hatch (same switch as the one which turns off the pumps, or would they be opposite then?), with the bottom dumping back into your magma source. When you pull the switch to turn off the pumps, the 3x3 areas will all dump their magma into your magma sea/volcano/pipe.

Do every tile, but have it on a separate lever, because you may find yourself wanting to turn it off but not drain it.
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KoffeeKup

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2010, 08:33:41 pm »

I'm just wondering but could we get some screen shots for this? I am having a hard time visualizing those text diagrams into actual stuff. Basically are you just filling 3x3 reservoirs that remove magma from the center keeping the walls warm so there is not much temperature change? I'll look at those typed up things again but I have never dealt with magma or pumps.

Edit: I think i figured it out, its just a pump stack but with a 3x3 magma reservoir. I explained it to my self in my own question. Would love pictures still.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 08:49:55 pm by KoffeeKup »
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NecroRebel

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2010, 10:09:26 pm »

Edit: I think i figured it out, its just a pump stack but with a 3x3 magma reservoir. I explained it to my self in my own question. Would love pictures still.
Easy enough; I've still got backups from the now-lost fort I was working on at the time, after all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll put them in the first post, too, just for people's future reference. It should be easy enough to tell how the orientation switches, since the access staircase is of course a straight column.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 10:11:07 pm by NecroRebel »
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A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

Patchy

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2010, 10:38:50 pm »

Impressive work and a most excellent example of dwarven !!Science!! for the betterment of FPS counts everywhere. I'm definately going to try installing one of these in my next fort. Most times I just leave my forges down at the magma sea to avoid building the old fps guzzler pumpstacks or at the very least install off switches on them hehe.
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Aner-Dyfan

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2010, 08:19:25 am »

Does this new pump stack design help with water pump stacks as well at all? It's not recalculating the temperature of the stone, but it is defining it as wet isn't it? Maybe it will help.
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NecroRebel

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2010, 12:59:51 pm »

Does this new pump stack design help with water pump stacks as well at all? It's not recalculating the temperature of the stone, but it is defining it as wet isn't it? Maybe it will help.
It might, but I've never heard of water stacks causing anywhere near the level of lag that magma stacks do. It could be something to check, but I'd guess that toggling the surrounding stone to damp/not damp isn't as processor-intensive as toggling it to warm/not warm and recalculating what temperature it's at.
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A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

LealNightrunner

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Re: A Better Magma Pump Stack
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2010, 01:04:24 pm »

Couldn't you easily verify the theory about temperature by just turning it off on a traditional pump stack?
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