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[Sutremaine]

Anyways, Under "brilliantly stupid" you could solve the cleanup problems by replacing the floors with hatches (or more likely bridges) and channeling out the sides of the uptake tiles.

You just need a raising bridge if you're pumping into a 1x3 area. Raise it up and all the magma just goes away.

[Reese]

so, I have a question...

If the lag is cause by massive temperature recalculation, when is the temperature recalculated?

I've found that pumps pump in the reverse of the order they build, so a stack built from the bottom up will pump upwards one Z-level per step, but a pump stack built from the top down will move whatever is at the bottom to the top in one step.  the pumps end up feeding whatever they are pumping to the next pump's input right before the next pump pumps.

The real question is: if a chunk of magma is moved up in a single round, is temperature recalculated for each Z-level the magma occupies, or does it only calculate temperature for the starting and ending tiles?

[Igawa]

I've found that pumps pump in the reverse of the order they build, so a stack built from the bottom up will pump upwards one Z-level per step, but a pump stack built from the top down will move whatever is at the bottom to the top in one step.  the pumps end up feeding whatever they are pumping to the next pump's input right before the next pump pumps.

The real question is: if a chunk of magma is moved up in a single round, is temperature recalculated for each Z-level the magma occupies, or does it only calculate temperature for the starting and ending tiles?

If temperature is calculated using the state of game determined at the end of each tick, then yes, this makes sense. Going out on a limb, lets assume Toady programmed the game to have every object do it's thing, one turn at a time, then when everything has moved, other calculations are done, such as temperature, per each square on the map, and then after all this is done, it is synchronized into a 'tick'.

Some implications if this is true, aside from a pump stack built from the top down 'instantly' transporting magma to the top in 1 tick (with no extra temp recalculation), is that if you place, say, a noble, in one of the input/output chambers somewhere in the pump stack, he won't burn to death, despite the fact that he HAD to have been immersed in magma at some point during tick generation (otherwise, the magma could never have reached the top: it still had to go through the stack).

Edit: Just thought of this...I'm a bit rusty on my DF pump logic. If it worked like you said, and magma was pumped from bottom to top in 1 step, what about the next step? Does it 'push' the 5/7 or 6/7 or whatever stack which is still sitting next to the pump out of the way? If it doesn't, won't that eventually cause each input/output chamber to fill?

[Reese]

eventually, yes.  Just like pressure will fill an area completely and afterwards your pump stack will have magma in each chamber, taht won't change.  What does change is that due to the order of operations, only one chunk of magma will be moving within the stack at any given time, rather than each chunk shifting 1 Z-level.

basically, once the stack is full, you should get the effect a chunk of empty space moving down the stack 1 Z-level at a time.
(it's similar to the way electronics are some times visualized with positive flow even though the reality of it is negative particles moving in the other direction- darn you, Benjamin Franklin!)

[Trouserman]

If temperature is calculated using the state of game determined at the end of each tick, then yes, this makes sense. Going out on a limb, lets assume Toady programmed the game to have every object do it's thing, one turn at a time, then when everything has moved, other calculations are done, such as temperature, per each square on the map, and then after all this is done, it is synchronized into a 'tick'.

I don't think the temperature is recalculated for every square, every tick.  I suspect that certain squares are marked for recalculation as magma moves, or other events happen which affect temperature.  So, as magma moves up this stack, the relevant squares are probably marked.  The temperature calculations could be either fast or slow, depending on how they are optimized, as we see from the stacks in this thread.

[FearfulJesuit]

My dear sir, you deserve a !!Nobel Prize!!.

We need !!Nobel Prizes!! for !!SCIENCE!!.

[BuGGaTon]

what are the %% items?  What are the OXs?  I use Mayday's graphics mod so a Pump looks like Xx I think.

Could you insert a key?  I think I've just worked out that the O is a magma safe wall and the X is an up/down staircase... meaning the %% is the pump I would presume.  The dark green pump tile is in exactly the same place (x/y coordinate) on each z-level?  This guide is brilliant but for a newbie using a tileset it's a little confusing for me XD

[Musashi]

My dear sir, you deserve a !!Nobel Prize!!.

We need !!Nobel Prizes!! for !!SCIENCE!!.

You mean something like a !!Shorast Prize!! instead, right?

[Sizik]

what are the %% items?  What are the OXs?  I use Mayday's graphics mod so a Pump looks like Xx I think.

Could you insert a key?  I think I've just worked out that the O is a magma safe wall and the X is an up/down staircase... meaning the %% is the pump I would presume.  The dark green pump tile is in exactly the same place (x/y coordinate) on each z-level?  This guide is brilliant but for a newbie using a tileset it's a little confusing for me XD

The %% is the pump, X is an up/down staircase, and O is either a glass door or a wall, neither of which would be particularly effective given the fact that you can walk right past it diagonally.

[NecroRebel]

what are the %% items?  What are the OXs?  I use Mayday's graphics mod so a Pump looks like Xx I think.

Could you insert a key?  I think I've just worked out that the O is a magma safe wall and the X is an up/down staircase... meaning the %% is the pump I would presume.  The dark green pump tile is in exactly the same place (x/y coordinate) on each z-level?  This guide is brilliant but for a newbie using a tileset it's a little confusing for me XD

Sorry I didn't get this sooner; I hadn't noticed anyone had posted recently.

The %%s are, as Sizik says, the pumps. In the upper of the two pictures, it pumps from south to north, and in the lower from north to south. The X is indeed an up/down staircase. The O is a constructed wall; for access to the reservoir, I had mined out one of the tiles that access it diagonally, but needed to seal that again so magma wouldn't flood my access stairs, hence the wall.

The wall is intentionally placed such that dwarves can still get by it to the passable tile of the pump to service it if necessary by passing through diagonally, and is in fact very effective at what it's meant to do, unlike what Sizik says, which is stop the magma from flooding anything 

[ikkonoishi]

I thought of something I want to try when I get home. Magma is chunky right? So once you pull it up a level it shouldn't flow away unless it gets pressurized. So if you build something like...

....
..X.
..+.
....

....
.+X.
.+..
....


Put the walkable side of the pump on the lime +(floor), and possibly a gear on the orange for extra support. X is a staircase of course. So long as !!everything!! is magma safe there shouldn't be a problem.

[Reese]

Magma is chunky right? So once you pull it up a level it shouldn't flow away unless it gets pressurized.

nope, magma will spread out just like water if there's an empty tile for it to spread in to.

also, not sure about your diagrams there, a pump is 1x2 tiles, not 1x1

[ikkonoishi]

also, not sure about your diagrams there, a pump is 1x2 tiles, not 1x1

Put the walkable side of the pump on the lime +(floor)

The unwalkable side goes on the dark green open space. It would be better I think if I left the top row undug.
Basically this arrangement should end up looking like...


~~X~
~%%~
~~~~

~~X~
~%%~
~~~~

With everything full of magma except the blocking pump block. However it turns out I'm to tired after work to bother with it at the moment so !!science!! will have to wait.

[NecroRebel]

Magma gets pseudo-pressurized when it goes through pumps. Pumped magma functions identically to pumped water, and so can and will flow away quite quickly when you've got any holes in your system.

I'm more just wondering what the purpose of your design there is. It seems inferior to the simple T-shaped design discussed earlier, as it basically is the T-design except without walls preventing magma from flooding the access routes. So, it just takes more magma to fill, runs constantly since it probably can't actually fill itself due to the pressurized magma from the top being able to teleport to the bottom, and has a somewhat larger footprint.

[ikkonoishi]

Mostly ease of designation, and construction. Magma shouldn't be able to teleport down to the bottom because the bottom will already be full of magma. Or at least thats the theory. Like I said I haven't tested it because I was too tired after work yesterday. With luck today will be the day. Note that the dots are all open space. Its just basically a giant tube full of pumps. As the pumps run magma flows up the tube. Make it so a pump fills the bottom of the tube separately from the stack, and you can't get any backflow. Another way to do it would be..


XXXX
X%%X
X%%X
XXXX


Mirror it horizontally on each floor. You get two pumps per level this way.

edit: Tested it. Nothing special really. Easy to set up, and gets the magma up there. Making it all out of iron or glass is annoying though.