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Author Topic: Atheism Redux [READ THE FIRST POST]  (Read 189832 times)

Criptfeind

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 04:42:03 pm »

I think any good argument on both side boils down to what realmfighter said.

Thus it is against the rules.
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fqllve

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2010, 04:44:15 pm »

hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

Should we just merge this with the Cannabis thread?
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You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.
Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2010, 04:44:43 pm »

It doesn't really matter in practice though. None of that. It sounds like you're arguing for the average religious person to be a fundamentalist, which is crazy. That's the last thing anyone wants. Catholics get divorced all the time in practice, the pope isn't really that powerful anymore. And besides, they've never read the book, but if they've gone to church they've had it read to them. That's what they do in church. It's a weekly religious lecture.

And if they don't go to church and haven't read the book, it's likely they're Catholic in name only. Which is okay because that doesn't really mean anything.

I'm just of the opinion that people should know what belief system they are meant to have before claiming they're of a religion. I'm not saying they should stick to it completely, merely know it.

And, to be honest, that's just selected passages from the Bible that the priest in question wants to make a point about.

And it means something to the people who collect figures on how many of each religion there are in each country.

Religion hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

Christianity hurt gays, lesbians, Jews, black people, people who wanted contraception, wives who wanted to get rid of their husbands, Muslims etc etc for centuries. It's still hurting Catholic Africans, children, gays, lesbians, Jews etc etc.

What were you saying?
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Micro102

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2010, 04:45:26 pm »

Religion hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

I'm pretty sure more people have been killed in the name of religion then for any other reason.
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Bauglir

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 04:46:41 pm »

Religion hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

You're like my favorite person ever right now. This is actually my position (when the first clause of your first sentence is true, and let's be honest, it almost always is; mostly people tack religious justification onto hurt they were already going to do anyway, so it's not the religion hurting anyone).

Still, it's fun to talk about as long as we don't get into "Your beliefs are bad and you should feel bad" territory. Figuring out why you believe something is never a bad thing, if you're prepared to actually think about it (which is why I put that whole thing about "not just stating your beliefs in the OP), and if you're not then this is probably not the thread for you.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Realmfighter

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2010, 04:46:51 pm »

Religion hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

Christianity hurt gays, lesbians, Jews, black people, people who wanted contraception, wives who wanted to get rid of their husbands, Muslims etc etc for centuries. It's still hurting Catholic Africans, children, gays, lesbians, Jews etc etc.

What were you saying?

People hurt people. Religion does not define people, people define religion. You can quote the bible to support anything you could possibly want.

The Nazi's used the bible to support there view, and yet not all Cristian are Anti-Semetic.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

Criptfeind

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 04:47:52 pm »

hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

Should we just merge this with the Cannabis thread?
No, because their may be real thoughts on the health penalties of weed.

Christianity hurt gays, lesbians, Jews, black people, people who wanted contraception, wives who wanted to get rid of their husbands, Muslims etc etc for centuries. It's still hurting Catholic Africans, children, gays, lesbians, Jews etc etc.

What were you saying?

Okay. Going to go Scotsman here.

Religion hurts no one, and it gives people harmless pleasure.

Don't be a dick.

I'm pretty sure more people have been killed in the name of religion then for any other reason.

I belive the crusades were more economically motivated.
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Bauglir

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2010, 04:48:52 pm »

You can quote the bible to support anything you could possibly want.

This. This is nearly literally true. It helps that the New and Old testaments were directly contradictory, so by picking whether you want a vengeful or a forgiving God, you can pull off just about whatever you feel like. Just about the only thing you can't support with a quote from the Bible is atheism.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2010, 04:49:16 pm »

People hurt people. Religion does not define people, people define religion. You can quote the bible to support anything you could possibly want.

Religion gives the justification that people need.

"The Bible says that gays are bad! Kill 'em!"
"The Bible says that Jews killed the saviour! Put them in ghettos!"
"The Pope says that black people are sub-human! Put them into slavery!"

And so on.

I have no trouble with people being "spiritual" or whatever, but RELIGION is bad.
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Realmfighter

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2010, 04:50:15 pm »

Religion gives the justification that people need.

Justification?

You can get that from anywhere.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

Criptfeind

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2010, 04:50:30 pm »

You can quote the bible to support anything you could possibly want.

This. This is nearly literally true. It helps that the New and Old testaments were directly contradictory, so by picking whether you want a vengeful or a forgiving God, you can pull off just about whatever you feel like. Just about the only thing you can't support with a quote from the Bible is atheism.

I think we can finagle that.

What is worse. Worshiping a false god or not worshiping at all?
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fqllve

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2010, 04:51:53 pm »

Worshipping a human.
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You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.

Micro102

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2010, 04:53:01 pm »

I think a good question would be "If there was no religion, would all those people have died?"

Religion is/was a powerful thing and controlled practically the entire world in earlier times. People might have had anterior motives, but would no religion mean they would have no reason to "justify" their actions?
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Realmfighter

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2010, 04:54:00 pm »

The crusades did not happen because the Muslims had a different religion.

It happened because they were different.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

Cthulhu

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2010, 04:55:47 pm »

People hurt people. Religion does not define people, people define religion. You can quote the bible to support anything you could possibly want.

Religion gives the justification that people need.

"The Bible says that gays are bad! Kill 'em!"
"The Bible says that Jews killed the saviour! Put them in ghettos!"
"The Pope says that black people are sub-human! Put them into slavery!"

And so on.

I have no trouble with people being "spiritual" or whatever, but RELIGION is bad.

If there were no religion people would find a different reason.  It's human nature to hate, religion is just an outlet.

Personally, I cannot believe in an all-powerful, benevolent god.

I could believe in a weak benevolent god (but what's the point in worshipping him?) or a powerful apathetic or malevolent god (who probably would hate you worshipping him or bugging him), but it's impossible to believe in an all-powerful and benevolent one.

Also, does rephrased Epicurus argument count as an old argument?


Can we add "You're argument isn't original" to "Arguments that are not original"?

You can't have an unoriginal argument but you can't point out unoriginal arguments either?  How the hell is that supposed to work?  This just in, it's against the law to steal but also against the law to enforce that law.


The crusades did not happen because the Muslims had a different religion.

It happened because they were different.

Hopy shit, realmfighter said something smart.  We're through the looking glass now.
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