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Author Topic: Raiding Parties/Slaves  (Read 3954 times)

Demonic Gophers

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2011, 03:05:08 am »

This has been discussed repeatedly before.

Under 'Military', the Dev page has the following goals:
    *  Ability to send out fortress dwarves to lead larger groups of surrounding dwarves out around mid-level maps (or just go alone)
    * Ability to send equipment and fortress dwarves out to train surrounding dwarves
    * Ability to attack sites and entity populations with your dwarven armies
    * Ability to set fires and select supplies to haul back when sacking a site

As for slavery, it's against dwarven ethics (ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL), so it probably won't be added any time soon.  And when it is put in, using it in vanilla DF will probably get you sieged by your own civilization - you aren't likely to see slave traders with dwarven caravans.  I'd like to see it as an option eventually, but I'm much more interested in multi-species forts.
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Lex Talionias

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2011, 03:08:59 am »

i wonder sometimes if this game will evolve into a full kingdom simulator. with you managing the capital while sending out orders and marching around armies.

THAT would be awesome.
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Durian Hohlades

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2011, 08:24:59 pm »

caravan arc is close i guess but how long will it take for army arc ? *,* wantz it!
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011, 08:25:39 pm »

I believe the estimate was late this year.
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Durian Hohlades

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2016, 09:51:03 am »

I believe the estimate was late this year.

Still not there :D
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Dirst

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2016, 01:10:02 pm »

This has been discussed repeatedly before.

Under 'Military', the Dev page has the following goals:
    *  Ability to send out fortress dwarves to lead larger groups of surrounding dwarves out around mid-level maps (or just go alone)
    * Ability to send equipment and fortress dwarves out to train surrounding dwarves
    * Ability to attack sites and entity populations with your dwarven armies
    * Ability to set fires and select supplies to haul back when sacking a site

As for slavery, it's against dwarven ethics (ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL), so it probably won't be added any time soon.  And when it is put in, using it in vanilla DF will probably get you sieged by your own civilization - you aren't likely to see slave traders with dwarven caravans.  I'd like to see it as an option eventually, but I'm much more interested in multi-species forts.
DF humans practice slavery and bring caravans, so there could be some interaction there.  But you are correct that things not directly related to dwarven sites get put on a burner way way in the back (e.g., making "grown" items).

A possible early implementation would be that human caravan I mentioned.  If relations between civs are poor, or the humans feel they are in the superior position, it makes perfect sense for a human caravan to have some slaves along as haulers/drivers even if they aren't offered for sale.  A human civ that respects the dwarven civ (from alliance, fear or sensitivity) would crew the caravan destined for a dwarven fort entirely with freemen.  From their perspective, it would be a higher-cost way to do business, but worth it to maintain relations.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2017, 04:19:56 am »

Slavery has turned up in a few other places recently, with some help from PatrickLundell (talking with me about elaboration on sentients) & Kyubee (general ideas about slavery) we were talking about a system that regionally locates populations of animalmen and when a military strategist ([RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]) makes a special raiding action on a area, they can have a chance to extract members of the intelligent wilderness creatures living there if they are neutral or fit the guidelines (goblins can pick up [EVIL] sentients like harpies, ogres & more trolls to replenish losses from local wilderness pops etc)

  • Universal 'pet value' or a automatic valuation of slaves/intelligents based on height/strength and qualities would make the financial part of buying or embarking with intelligent creatures/slaves straightforward. (thanks to kyubee for helping contribute that idea)


Also discussed was animal-men and intelligents (this could vary from savage creatures to the good/evil generic intelligent creatures and be 'tokenfied' in numerous ways like a subsystem of [LAIR] for [BURROWS/CAMPS/WILDERNESS LOCATION] etc.) having a physical existance as a minor entity like the underground 'civs' so that they have a traceable area where they live, even if its not explicitly marked on the map (like caves) and serve functions to, with additional activities such as being classes of visitors (out of season peddlers of basic goods & petitioners) & antagonists.

  • Before it was commented out, hyenamen used to have a set of behaviors to kill & steal livestock to haul offsite & take to their set of above-ground tents usually constructed out of spider silk in the savage grasslands. Re-additions of behaviors like this depending on the creature wilderness site type may be very interesting as a additional dimension to settling the landscape & co-existing (or not)


From Toady's prior comments, independent mini sites that aren't caves (which break the rules of a symbiotic hillock spawl feeding a local fortress they trade with as a requirement) are likely to happen around the law & belongings arc after scenario's when the town system will get looked at and hopefully expanded upon but also made to support different types of occupation & rules.

I like the term 'inundated servant' if we're going to be soft about it but still keep it there (a bit like the ambiguity of spouse conversion trolls) given 'master - servant' roles are very much present, and it may just be a case that in goblin civilisations, because the 'Monarch' is the head slave owner of all the goblins, when people are enslaved they join the population because they are commonly enslaved between themselves.

  • Anecdotally i've personally seen a visitor to one of my taverns once from a human civ with a personal slave to themselves following behind, so the master-slave relationship might change between civs, so maybe only the monarch rulers of dark fortress civs are entitled to enslave any groups of people because they are the only people who are 'free'.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 04:54:59 am by FantasticDorf »
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Kyubee

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 06:04:49 am »

Slavery has turned up in a few other places recently, with some help from PatrickLundell (talking with me about elaboration on sentients) & Kyubee (general ideas about slavery) we were talking about a system that regionally locates populations of animalmen and when a military strategist ([RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]) makes a special raiding action on a area, they can have a chance to extract members of the intelligent wilderness creatures living there if they are neutral or fit the guidelines (goblins can pick up [EVIL] sentients like harpies, ogres & more trolls to replenish losses from local wilderness pops etc)

  • Universal 'pet value' or a automatic valuation of slaves/intelligents based on height/strength and qualities would make the financial part of buying or embarking with intelligent creatures/slaves straightforward. (thanks to kyubee for helping contribute that idea)


Also discussed was animal-men and intelligents (this could vary from savage creatures to the good/evil generic intelligent creatures and be 'tokenfied' in numerous ways like a subsystem of [LAIR] for [BURROWS/CAMPS/WILDERNESS LOCATION] etc.) having a physical existance as a minor entity like the underground 'civs' so that they have a traceable area where they live, even if its not explicitly marked on the map (like caves) and serve functions to, with additional activities such as being classes of visitors (out of season peddlers of basic goods & petitioners) & antagonists.

  • Before it was commented out, hyenamen used to have a set of behaviors to kill & steal livestock to haul offsite & take to their set of above-ground tents usually constructed out of spider silk in the savage grasslands. Re-additions of behaviors like this depending on the creature wilderness site type may be very interesting as a additional dimension to settling the landscape & co-existing (or not)


From Toady's prior comments, independent mini sites that aren't caves (which break the rules of a symbiotic hillock spawl feeding a local fortress they trade with as a requirement) are likely to happen around the law & belongings arc after scenario's when the town system will get looked at and hopefully expanded upon but also made to support different types of occupation & rules.

I like the term 'inundated servant' if we're going to be soft about it but still keep it there (a bit like the ambiguity of spouse conversion trolls) given 'master - servant' roles are very much present, and it may just be a case that in goblin civilisations, because the 'Monarch' is the head slave owner of all the goblins, when people are enslaved they join the population because they are commonly enslaved between themselves.

  • Anecdotally i've personally seen a visitor to one of my taverns once from a human civ with a personal slave to themselves following behind, so the master-slave relationship might change between civs, so maybe only the monarch rulers of dark fortress civs are entitled to enslave any groups of people because they are the only people who are 'free'.
Thanks for giving me credit for the idea of a petvalue-esque feature. Anyways, the slavery idea is planned yet far in the backburner as said, but what I just thought of as an expansion, is another civ like goblins, but rather than using evil creatures, they get a new tag; [USE_SAVAGE_CREATURES], which is exactly what it says on the tin, allowing that race to use the various savage races as servants; like Goblins with Trolls, Harpies, etc. I don't know what they'd be (gnolls, maybe?), but this is just an odd expansion i thought of in an instant!
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Raiding Parties/Slaves
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2017, 06:55:05 am »

Another race is doable but yours sounds like something elves would do because they have the [USE_ANY_PET_RACE] tag which allows them to tame & domesticate any neutral exotic pet as if they were normal pets (so full domestication knowledge of giant & non conventional tamable animals)
  • A [SAVAGE] tag would need to work differently & allow the civ to go out and tame exotic & non-pet savage creatures (sasquatches/yeti's as some big examples etc) but not overlap with other tags like [EVIL/GOOD] unless the civ has one tag like that or both.

> Its funny you mention gnolls, because i was thinking gnolls or some kind of animal race like that too when you said that, trodding along wearing bone armour & stone tools.

Elves don't need to enslave anybody because they have a natural society that accepts animalmen as free citizens, so the slavery mechanics probably wouldn't be present but the same 'local settlements' for animalmen could emigrate to close by elven sites after the elves establish first contact. Your gnolls however like you detail with the relevant post would be able to enslave wild natural animal races exclusively, yes.

(Though unless the rules were changed, practically anybody could enslave animal-men with the right ethics because [SAVAGE] in the current game is not a restriction, and parts of the taming system would need to have a rehaul, though having normal animalmen protected by [USE_SAVAGE_CREATURES] entity tag might help them avoid being enslaved normally, meaning civ members only get enslaved)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 06:57:30 am by FantasticDorf »
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