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Author Topic: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!  (Read 16754 times)

Gzalzi

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2011, 03:40:41 pm »

Anything that will improve FPS under heavy load. I don't care about anything else.
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Nexii Malthus

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2011, 09:31:22 am »

I think any showstoppers should be fixed that aren't meta goals (Laggy FPS, etc.).

So, Hospitals, while it doesn't affect my newest fort it seems, the previous fort had issues with the bucket never being filled for my doctors. And Military related bugs.




Well, color my face red.

Z1000000m

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2011, 11:56:58 am »

Healthcare fixing.

Seriously, having a dwarf permamently disabled/refusing to drink booze and dehydrating to death, because he has a mangled toe is so very very undwarvenly.

Or making military handling easier. Let's face it, its a total mess.

Can't really decided between the two.
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sweitx

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2011, 04:32:26 pm »

Healthcare fixing.

Seriously, having a dwarf permamently disabled/refusing to drink booze and dehydrating to death, because he has a mangled toe is so very very undwarvenly.

Or making military handling easier. Let's face it, its a total mess.

Can't really decided between the two.

Military handling is fairly intuitive once you get a grasp of it (at least the scheduling part).

Thou I would agree, currently some bugs are show-stoppingly annoying (especially healthcare bugs).
On a tangent, maybe Toady One is making a political statement on the sorry healthcare state in the State right now.
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SlimyMarmot

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2011, 05:10:46 pm »

My top three would probably be the healthcare issues, marksdwarf ammo troubles and general performance optimising (can never have enough of that!). All other bugs seem more or less trivial to me, since those are the ones I constantly run into.
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Karakzon

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2011, 05:35:54 pm »

a small addition to medical care:

dwarfs healing brocken bones/shatterd bones ina  crooked fashion if no medi care available. because after 2 years: i do belive uristmcbrockenleg will have healed, even if it isent well and the things more prone to getting trashed.
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caknuck

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2011, 05:42:45 pm »

Two bugs that come to mind that have yet to show up:
1) The silly game of tug-of-war that happens when Urist McMilker is trying to take a camel to the workshop to milk it and Urist McAnimalHauler decides he wants to drag it back to its stall/cage.
2) Crystal glass.
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Zaerosz

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2011, 05:58:28 pm »

No use for cruthes, or plaster, or soap. In fact, do hospital was tested at all?... I bet Toady tested it once on one or two dorfs, moved to other things and while doing them broke hospital. Yay.
BZZT. WRONG. Did you know medical supplies will only count as being stocked in the hospital if they're stored in a bag/box/chest built in the hospital? And that dwarves will only use soap if it's stored in the hospital zone in this manner? And that placing stockpiles in a hospital zone is utterly pointless because of those two points? And that the hospital is, in fact, not NEARLY as bugged as you believe it to be?
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Lex Talionias

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2011, 09:24:31 pm »

yeah, there needs to be a way to fix the catsplosion. atleast until they finally get runesmith working for .18 and i can just make them the female cats explode.
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Cruxador

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2011, 10:23:14 pm »

Anyway I do not count very much on this "bugfix punch". At least half of it will be wasted on bugfixing new features - I have no doubts that 0.31.19 will be hardly playable. In additions, new features will broke some old things that was working previously. So some new bugs will be fixed, some old bugs will be fixed, some bugs that was created just in old thigs will be fixed, and net result is: we wind up with more bugs overall. Introducing new features before any decent bugfix cleanup is grave mistake.
Toady is self-employed and not on a schedule. He will keep working on it until he is done.
Also, adding new features before a bugfix does not introduce more bugs than adding new features after a bug fix. The features are going in at some point, and the bugs are getting fixed at some point. Introducing the bugs and then doing a big bugfixing push strikes me as a lot more sensible than fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs and not doing a bugfixing push.
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madciol

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2011, 07:40:22 pm »

No use for cruthes, or plaster, or soap.
Did you know medical supplies will only count as being stocked in the hospital if they're stored in a bag/box/chest built in the hospital?
Yes, I know. What it have to do with fact that dwarves DO NOT use cruthes at all, using plaster for cast is broken and soap... okay, I give this last one: soaps works in hospital storage. Only. Not to mention other issues (most annoying is that medical skills seem to have lower priority than No Job).

And that the hospital is, in fact, not NEARLY as bugged as you believe it to be?
Funny that Mantis, my experience and complaints all over this forum somehow do not agree with you.

Also, adding new features before a bugfix does not introduce more bugs than adding new features after a bug fix.
Of course it can, in zilion ways. For example, some behaviour of new feature can rely on unfixed old bug. When you at last fix that old bug, new feature mysteriously broke, often in werid way and often months after originally writing it - so it will be very hard to make connection between two, not to mention actually fixing this secondary bug.

The features are going in at some point, and the bugs are getting fixed at some point. Introducing the bugs and then doing a big bugfixing push strikes me as a lot more sensible than...
Except this is not what Toady do. He writes code (read: introduces bugs), writes code, writes code, fix some bugs, writes code, writes code, writes code, fix some... this cannot end well. Proper (or at least "properer") way is: writes code, fix bugs, writes code, fix bugs... in other words, IMVHO he too rarely do bug fixing. And yes, I am very well aware this is what most of community want. It saddens me.

...fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs and not doing a bugfixing push.
Where I write to not doing it? Last I checked, my post said something different.
Quote
Introducing new features before any decent bugfix cleanup is grave mistake.
In my opinion this fairly clearly shows "...fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs, then another round of fixes".
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Sixteen

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2011, 10:16:48 pm »

All of those links have resolved duplicates, as far as I could tell.
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G-Flex

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2011, 10:36:00 pm »

I just want to see combat/bodies make more sense. It's a system with pretty noble goals, but there are absurdities that need fixing.

  • Body tissue properties can be really weird, helping things like the fat-melting bug happen.
  • Oddities like dwarves biting harder than dogs, simply because relsizes are a little strange, there's little concept of an animal having strong body parts (such as a strong jaw in this case) aside from size, and creatures being insufficiently differentiated in general. Also, on that subject, you have strange tissue layering anomalies (I'm pretty sure heads have the same proportion of tissues in them as most other body parts, so yeah, if you're fat, you've basically got a layer of flab on top of your skull for protection).
  • Some tweaks to how severing and damage in general work. Organ failure (e.g. heart damage, organ bruising) might still be a little problematic, and there's still no concept of minor, temporary brain injury (you can't give someone a concussion or knock them out with head blows; for the most part, any damage to the brain is fatal). Also, for some reason I've seen cases of dwarves being able to, say, sever body parts with their fingernails.
  • Temperature-based damage (and temperature transfer, maybe) is flat-out zonky at some points. In Arena Mode, I've seen a dwarf get burn wounds to his brain and survive. We need heat effects to simulate fevers or something like that, and for them to die if it gets too bad, long before the brain starts to roast (especially for homeotherms, who depend on a very stable body temperature). Aside from the fat melting point issue, the heat/cold damage points (and possibly ignite/melting points) for many tissues needs to be adjusted to account for how tissue damage occurs in real life.
  • Some attacks are too damaging, and others aren't damaging enough. An elephant stomping a cat doesn't do as much damage as it should, possibly because attacks like that don't carry as much of the attacker's weight as they should in situations where they should. On the flip side, the game acts as if you're attacking immobilized parts. In real life, it's harder to break many body parts, because you transfer momentum to them instead of them staying perfectly still. This leads to situations like, say, a kick to the head/chest being treated as something like a curb-stomp. There's a big difference between kicking someone in the chest in the open, and kicking someone in the chest when they're up against a wall, and I feel like DF might treat all situations as if they're equivalent to the latter.
  • Whatever I forgot.

I'd really like to see the system get into better shape, because it has so much potential. Of course, some of this might tie into the medical system oddities we have, but I'm less well-versed in those.
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Kogut

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2011, 04:45:44 am »


Also, adding new features before a bugfix does not introduce more bugs than adding new features after a bug fix.
Of course it can, in zilion ways. For example, some behaviour of new feature can rely on unfixed old bug. When you at last fix that old bug, new feature mysteriously broke, often in werid way and often months after originally writing it - so it will be very hard to make connection between two, not to mention actually fixing this secondary bug.

The features are going in at some point, and the bugs are getting fixed at some point. Introducing the bugs and then doing a big bugfixing push strikes me as a lot more sensible than...
Except this is not what Toady do. He writes code (read: introduces bugs), writes code, writes code, fix some bugs, writes code, writes code, writes code, fix some... this cannot end well. Proper (or at least "properer") way is: writes code, fix bugs, writes code, fix bugs... in other words, IMVHO he too rarely do bug fixing. And yes, I am very well aware this is what most of community want. It saddens me.

...fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs and not doing a bugfixing push.
Where I write to not doing it? Last I checked, my post said something different.
Quote
Introducing new features before any decent bugfix cleanup is grave mistake.
In my opinion this fairly clearly shows "...fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs, then another round of fixes".
What will result in long run in game unplayable due to n+ bugs (see: soap madness).
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madciol

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Re: Before there can be war, there will be... Bugfixes!
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2011, 06:25:21 am »

All of those links have resolved duplicates, as far as I could tell.
Unfortunately, this means nothing. For some reason, unneeded duplicates are marked as resolved, not closed (as everyone can see, this is confusing). You can trust only "resolved" that are marked by Toady, not Footkerchief or someone else.

In my opinion this fairly clearly shows "...fixing some bugs, then introducing new bugs, then another round of fixes".
What will result in long run in game unplayable due to n+ bugs (see: soap madness).
Huh?
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