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Author Topic: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]  (Read 29747 times)

daishi5

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 03:39:44 pm »

I am seeing weird things with the heights of my caverns using the 0  0 settings, my second level cavern on this embark is 17 z levels high of big open areas.  My third cavern starts at 58 levels down, and the last space with muddy cavern floor is at 135 z levels down.  Most of those almost all rock with one almost bottomless pit, and a few very small steep paths through the rock.  I also changed levels_above_layer_4 to 5, and levels_above_layer_1 to 10, but I have used that before, and not seen this.  This is my second world gen like this, and I keep abandoning due to FPS.   I think these settings may be affecting the cavern depth somehow in some cases. 

The fortress does have two redeeming qualities,
sand, waterfall, flux and a magma pipe that comes up to about the top of the 3rd cavern layer, which puts it in the top 1/3 of the map.
A spoiler sticking up to the top of the 3rd cavern, with 42 safe layers, and another 80 with a stick that could be mined around.  All told prospector says the map has over 10k of the stuff.
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schussel

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 08:55:44 pm »

nice thread .. but another question .. what would i have to do to get caverns but the smalles possible for each (so increasing the chance for undisturbed building of magma piston and vertical builds?) i mean for caves not extending every worst spot on the way down?

i know its lame .. but any idea?
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j0nas

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2011, 09:02:07 pm »

nice thread .. but another question .. what would i have to do to get caverns but the smalles possible for each (so increasing the chance for undisturbed building of magma piston and vertical builds?) i mean for caves not extending every worst spot on the way down?

i know its lame .. but any idea?
On a related note, is it possible to get 'flat' caverns, as in all cave floors on the same z level?  It's really annoying when the caverns go up and down all over the place, I like my worlds *flat* damnit! :P
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arkhometha

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2011, 11:57:02 pm »

Wow. Thank you very much, awesome research!
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krenshala

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 12:32:35 am »

I just came across another curious thing: demons change the underground landscape. The image above was with 0 titans, 0 demons and 0 night-time creatures.

Spoiler: 2 Demons (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 5 Demons (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 15 Demons (click to show/hide)

Titans and night creatures do not appear to have an effect on terrain, on the surface or underground.
I think the difference is when particular beasties are generated during map creation.  From this, it appears it creates the world, generates the demons (if there are any) then the caverns, then other creatures.  The values from the RNG are different from the point of demon setup (since they are generated) on.  The actual numbers generated from the RNG are the same (assuming the same seed) but how they get used changes, thus the changes to the world.
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ullrich

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 10:32:52 am »

So what does openness do, I can't see a noticeable difference between 0 and 100. Previously I assumed it would dictate the size of the caverns (As in a large cavern is very open, while a small one is not).
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Lemunde

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 11:05:51 am »

So what does openness do, I can't see a noticeable difference between 0 and 100. Previously I assumed it would dictate the size of the caverns (As in a large cavern is very open, while a small one is not).

It seems to me openness only comes into play when passage density is above 0. I think a high passage density and high openness would create mostly open areas with dense clusters of passages. Check the last few screenshots in the OP to see what I mean.

Edit: Okay, I think I see what's going on here. Passage density doesn't dictate how much of the cavern is taken up by passages but how "dense" those passages are in the passage areas. Openness dictates how much of the cavern is taken up by passage areas. Look at "open 0, density 25" and "open 0, density 100".  At 25 the passages are fairly spread out. At 100 they're almost at every other tile.

Ideally you would want openness pretty high, probably above 85, and passage density below 25. Higher passage density seems to negate openness below a certain threshold. Probably because the openness algorithm goes by how many total spaces are not taken up by a wall, including those spaces in passage areas.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 11:18:27 am by Lemunde »
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azeroth2b

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2018, 09:30:17 am »

This topic is now 6 years old and the images seem inaccessible.  If someone can help do the science, I'm happy to help document the results on dwarffortresswiki.org. 
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martinuzz

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Re: Cavern Openness Vs Passage Density [Pics Inside]
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2018, 09:52:54 am »

The wiki still has 4 pictures for openness 100, density 0, o0/d100, d100/o100 and d50/o50
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Advanced_world_generation
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