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[Levi]

Anybody remember The Bards Tale Construction Set?  I remember having a ton of fun as a kid playing with it. 

[Akura]

Nobody has mentioned Anvil of Dawn yet?

[GTM]

Ultima underworld is one of the finest series of games to ever grace my computer.  I'd like to hear any kind of decent argument against those games.  I played them long enough ago that I didn't even know what WASD was, so no control problems.  But UU is too realtime to count for this topic - it's more in a genre with previously mentioned titles like daggerfall, system shock, etc along with deus ex.

Stonekeep was so cool.  I sucked at it so I never got far, but I did read the book that came with it.  That was also the era of terrible live action FMV like the ones in dark forces 2 - Jedi knight.  It was awesome at the time, then embarrassing for a few years, but I think bad live action FMV is camp and ironic enough to be cool again now.

Also spoilers on...

System shock/bioshock

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bioshock is really just system shock with ayn rand instead of shodan, isn't it?  The guy made the same game two or three times...

Ultima/Ultima underworld

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Too bad UU wasnt canon.  The shit that went down in UU2 could have made Ultima 9 so much cooler - avenging bishop, rounding up your allies in other worlds to take down the guardian, etc

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I never played Bioshock, but there were a LOT of things they did in System Shock 1 that didn't even make it into SS 2. So I suspect they didn't make it into BS 1 or 2. At least, I haven't heard of these things being in BS 1 or 2. SS 1 is really worth a play especially if you're used to the UU controls.

[varnish]

I absolutely loved Ultima Underworld when I was a kid. Loved it. Everything in it was new to me, at the time. The spellcasting methods, the need to eat, the simple fact that you could have a game with three dimensions... It absolutely blew my mind. Plus, it was just plain fun to explore.

Speaking of the Ultima series, though, didn't several of the games include a first person dungeon crawl at some point? I seem to remember something like that from Ultima 4 and 5, at least. You had to go into places like Deceit and Despise at some point to recover some items, and I believe that the actual movement through the dungeon was done in first person.  It's been years since I played them, so I could be wrong, but I do remember something like that.

[GaelicVigil]

Speaking of the Ultima series, though, didn't several of the games include a first person dungeon crawl at some point? I seem to remember something like that from Ultima 4 and 5, at least. You had to go into places like Deceit and Despise at some point to recover some items, and I believe that the actual movement through the dungeon was done in first person.  It's been years since I played them, so I could be wrong, but I do remember something like that.

Yeah, I know that Ultima 1-3 had first person dungeons.  I loved those dungeons.  There was something fun about spending hours just mapping them out on graph-paper.


Here's another extremely obscure first person dungeon crawler: Moraff's World

The graphics are horrendous, but the mechanics are pretty cool.  This game was unique because it had a huge multi-continent world that was completely randomly generated - even the towns themselves.  Get the full version here.

[nenjin]

Oh yeah, Bard's Tale!

Hearkening from the days when copy protection was a map used to navigate a maze-like city where everything looked the same. You needed the map to figure out where to go to train to higher levels of experience.

That was one of the first RPG/dungeon crawlers I was ever exposed to, back when it came out on the Apple II GS.

It really is a great game. You build a whole party from scratch, with no real limitations (full wizard party? why not?), lots of equipment, big labyrinth dungeons, light spells and such and a high level of late-game difficulty.

Do yourself a favor, if you play it, and DO NOT GET ANYTHING BUT THE APPLE II GS version. The other versions of the game for different platforms are shallow reproductions of the original game. (Like, in the Apple II GS version, the graphics are better and all the character portraits are animated, which adds a lot to the atmosphere, especially for monsters.)

[nenjin]

Ok, I literally just spent the last two hours crawling the Deep 'net in search of how to run this thing.

Finally, VICTORY IS MINE!

The process is way too detailed/complicated and requires visiting probably 5 different sites. If anyone wants to know, I'll tell. Just suffice to say, getting an Apple ][ GS game properly emulated is a major fucking pain in the ass for windows users. But it can be done. And in Bard's Tale's case...it was wort the effort.

[loose nut]

For a modern take, Etrian Odyssey III really is very good. The Dark Spire isn't bad either. (Both Nintendo DS games)

[marples]

Hired guns. Squad based dungeon crawl with guns, all four team members on screen at once too.

It may be Amiga only so you'll need an emu.

[GaelicVigil]

Ok, I literally just spent the last two hours crawling the Deep 'net in search of how to run this thing.

Finally, VICTORY IS MINE!

The process is way too detailed/complicated and requires visiting probably 5 different sites. If anyone wants to know, I'll tell. Just suffice to say, getting an Apple ][ GS game properly emulated is a major fucking pain in the ass for windows users. But it can be done. And in Bard's Tale's case...it was wort the effort.

I, for one, would like to know how you did it.  I've never given Bard's Tale a fair shot and would like to try it on the best platform available.

[nenjin]

*draws a deep breath*

You'll need four things.

An Apple ][ GS Emulator.
An Apple ROM from around the ][ GS era.
A copy of Bard's Tale I: Tales of the Unknown for the Apple ][ GS.
A copy of the Bard's Tale I Character Disk.

The game stored in a 2mg image file.
Kegs 9.1 Apple 2 GS Emulator

Once you get that far, let me know. I can't even find where I got the other two files anymore, that's how deep into the net and FTP servers I had to go. I'm also not 100% sure on the legality of the whole thing. The character disk and the ][ GS Rom seem to be really rare.

Put the emulator on your HD, and put the ROM, Game disk image, and character disk image all in the root directory. Then you need to fire Kegs up and head to the config settings. Under ROM, you need to select the appropriate ROM. Under Disk Configuration, you need to load "The Bard's Tale" disk image under SD5-1 (or whatever it's called, the first one.) Then you need to load the Character Disk in SD6-1. Now restart the emulator. The game should launch. Make sure to hit F6 twice after the intro screen to change the emulator's processor speed to 2.8Mhz. If you run it uncapped, the game plays so fast it's not manageable. If you run it at 1Mhz, it will run too slowly compared to the original. (If you change the speed on the first screen, the game tends to bug out.) Hit F8 to lock the mouse cursor into the window.

When the game asks where your character disk is located, point it to the disk drive slot you loaded it in on Kegs. You should be GTG now.

Once you get in game.....prepare yourself. This is one of the most brutal and unforgiving oldskool RPGs out there. Just figuring out how to survive to level 2 will take you an hour or so. This is one game I advocate a mild amount of cheating in the beginning, because without knowing where the Review Board is located or how to find clues to its location, you could literally spend days looking for it. The game also has a system of "must come back to location X to save off all party members." Which is both a blessing and a curse.

Like I said, hit me up for the last two files if you get that far.

[Grishnak]

I agree with the plugs for Mordor and Demise. (For the record its Demise: Rise of the Ku'taan, Decklin is just the guy who maintains it now, but isnt the guy who made it)

Demise is the only real first person dungeon crawl of the bunch, since its the only one that shows more than just a random picture for the dungeon. The games are pretty tough if you dont know what you are doing, and really benefit from the meta gaming min/maxing (mostly maxing) gaming style and are really heavy number cruncher/stat whoring type of games. They are also pretty immense. Demise has 30+ dungeon levels and an expansion coming out or is out, not sure about it. Mordor has only 10 levels but the difficulty jump from level 3 to level 4 is pretty intense, along with from 5 to 6.  Mordor 2 is a lot like Mordor 1, with pictures in place of numbers/text. It says it has more levels but it doesnt really work out like that, since every other level is a basicly blank level. Mordor 2 Eventually turned into Infinite Worlds and then that turned into Demise.

Demise also has multi player where you can party up with someone, but in reality it doesnt work so well, and ends up being more of a social atmopshere with people sharing items and monsters in the shop, and when you die they can come rescue you.  Single player in all of these games allows you to run a party of 4 characters that you make, but its not a permant party. You can run each char individually, or in a party of others up to a maximum of 4. 
Unfortunately Demise has a problem with Windows Vista (64 bit, and presumably Windows 7) where it wont install or run. Personally Ive never had any problems on Vista, and havent tried it on 7 yet.

Sorry for the wall of text, I just absolutely love these games and have been playing them consistently for the past 15 or so years. 
The community for the first game is here: http://mordor.uni.cc/forum/
They are also creating a version of the game themselves, although its been taking a very, VERY long time, and is probably no where near release yet.