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Author Topic: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)  (Read 20554 times)

mainiac

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #105 on: March 09, 2011, 11:47:01 pm »

In Maryland we have a reserve fund which we saved up in the good years and are using it to bridge the budget gap this year (before that was the stimulus money).  Of course, some fiscal readjustments were needed too, but it's helping a lot.  Does Wisconsin have such a fund and how big is it?
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Sowelu

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2011, 11:49:08 pm »

I most certainly am a taxpayer, and I generally support unions.  Some of them are awful (like when the local automotive union somehow took over collective bargaining for grad students at my university...wtf...) but they're overall a good thing.  Eliminating them through legal action is downright fascist any way you slice it.
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Bouchart

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #107 on: March 09, 2011, 11:50:57 pm »

Quoting myself, but in addition, Wisconsin doesn't allow itself to go into debt.  Every budget must be balanced.  Any shortfall is projected, and not current.  This is why we have budget adjustment bills come towards the end of a session, to account for what actually happened with revenue.

Yes, this is true for every state in the union, I believe.

You have to remember I work in a non-partisan position, I get exposed to much more information than talking points.

Noted, and I thank you for your input here.  I follow financial markets closely (and no, I do not work in the finance industry).  Poor demographic trends in the U.S., coupled with underfunded public pension obligations and a crumbling municipal bond market make me believe that shortfalls and deficits across the country are far worse than projected.  Official projections for these sort of things tend to be overly optimistic.

By the way, I live in New York with the highly corrupt MTA and their union so I have a lot of bitterness towards them.  My mother also works in civil service (not in the MTA) and believe me I hear all sorts of stories about what goes on in these unions.
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Bouchart

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #108 on: March 09, 2011, 11:54:52 pm »

I most certainly am a taxpayer, and I generally support unions.  Some of them are awful (like when the local automotive union somehow took over collective bargaining for grad students at my university...wtf...) but they're overall a good thing.  Eliminating them through legal action is downright fascist any way you slice it.

I have no issue with unions in private industry- the Teamsters, for example, or the automotive workers union.  I believe they have every right to organize.  I wouldn't want to be a member of one, however.  Nor do I believe that union membership should be compulsory if you want to work in trucking or on an assembly line.

Unions in the public sector are another matter.  There's no "cost control" because union members can throw a significant amount of votes for a candidate that offers them enough goodies during negotiations.
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Sowelu

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #109 on: March 10, 2011, 12:01:12 am »

Unions in the public sector are another matter.  There's no "cost control" because union members can throw a significant amount of votes for a candidate that offers them enough goodies during negotiations.

If you think a union can really swing enough votes just for that one purpose...well, then, maybe there's a significant enough population that thinks it's actually important.  It's not like every goddamn voter is a member of any one given union.  Besides, look at all the other single-issue economic things that people vote for.  People vote for people who will give them tax cuts.  People vote for candidates who endorse construction in the field they work for.  Etc.  Unions really don't change that.

Teachers' unions don't get pro-education people voted in.  People who think teachers should be fucking paid get pro-education people voted in.  So what if a lot of those folks decided to become teachers, and to join a union?  That doesn't make their political opinions any less valid.
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His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

mainiac

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #110 on: March 10, 2011, 12:05:41 am »

Nor do I believe that union membership should be compulsory if you want to work in trucking or on an assembly line.

"Right-to-work" states make it impossible for unions to have real bargaining power.  Saying you favor a right to work approach to unionization is saying that you favor having no significant labor organizations and pretty soon only 7% of the private workforce is unionized.  It's just hiding it behind a step of removal.  It's like how saying you favor cuts to local or state governments means you favor firing teachers.  You need to actually think through the consequences of your decisions.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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ed boy

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #111 on: March 10, 2011, 05:08:39 am »

As of December 2010, Wisconsin's unemployment rate was about 7%.  But only 30% are taxpayers?
The official definition of unemployed is people who are willing and able to work, but do not have a job, hence the difference between the numbers.
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mainiac

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #112 on: March 10, 2011, 09:31:04 am »

Sarcasm fail all over the place in this thread.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #113 on: March 10, 2011, 09:33:24 am »

The official definition of unemployed is people who are willing and able to work, but do not have a job, hence the difference between the numbers.

Allow me to introduce you to my derp.  He's not very herp.  In other words, touché.

I still very much contest the "all taxpayers and only taxpayers dislike public unions" bullshit.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 09:34:57 am by Earthquake Damage »
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #114 on: March 10, 2011, 09:54:00 am »

It is a generalization, and is thus bullshit by definition.
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mainiac

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #115 on: March 10, 2011, 01:12:41 pm »

The silliness of that remark was pointed out rather quickly.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

darkrider2

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2011, 03:28:57 pm »

I just got in argument in my government class over this.
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Ampersand

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2011, 04:00:56 pm »

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=government+surplus+by+country

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=oil+production+by+country

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=oil+consumption+by+country

All these wonderful debates about worker rights and compensation are good and all, but these are debates we would not be having if the USA and it's constituent states bothered to have budget that ends in the black, rather than the red. Of course, in America, our politicians have convinced us that the solution to every problem is for the government to cut it's primary revenue source, Taxes.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2011, 04:47:33 pm »

Yes, and we like to call ourselves "taxpayers".
Uh... don't public sector workers pay taxes too?
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mainiac

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Re: Work Tomorrow (Wisconsin Protest)
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2011, 05:21:57 pm »

No, they just murder taxpayer babies and use their blood in rituals to the god of public unions.  That scares off the IRS.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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