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[C4lv1n]

Anyone else realize this? I doubt that the AI is going to know how to get through one, they'd be restricted to coming through where we breached, which, will of course be full of traps or other such nonsense.

What do you guys think?

[Aspgren]

This is true, but it all depends on the AI as well.

The aquifier might not cover the entire area you know. Invaders might be able to path-find through a few layers of regular rock and dig their way into the caverns below, from which they will be able to continue their assault.. or who knows? they might spawn inside the caverns?

 A multi-level aquifier will definitely cause them grief though that much is for sure.

[PwndJa]

I'm sure Toady would throw something in for digging invaders to be able to bust an aquifer. Like a goblin siege would bring mobile screw pumps or something.

Or a forgotten beast that can dig and is amphibious.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

and then when they inevitably punch a hole in the aquifer, you're done, not because they will kill you, but because after you kill them, you better have your swimming skill maxed out

[Aspgren]

I'm sure Toady would throw something in for digging invaders to be able to bust an aquifer. Like a goblin siege would bring mobile screw pumps or something.

Or a forgotten beast that can dig and is amphibious.

oh god... you mean he'd dig right through the aquifier and punch a hole in the dinning room ceiling?? the horror! 

[thvaz]

I'm sure Toady would throw something in for digging invaders to be able to bust an aquifer. Like a goblin siege would bring mobile screw pumps or something.

Or a forgotten beast that can dig and is amphibious.

oh god... you mean he'd dig right through the aquifier and punch a hole in the dinning room ceiling?? the horror! 

You would be better then planning ahead and creating various safe measures in case of breached aquifer...

[PwndJa]

I'm sure Toady would throw something in for digging invaders to be able to bust an aquifer. Like a goblin siege would bring mobile screw pumps or something.

Or a forgotten beast that can dig and is amphibious.

oh god... you mean he'd dig right through the aquifier and punch a hole in the dinning room ceiling?? the horror! 

You would be better then planning ahead and creating various safe measures in case of breached aquifer...

But there there was a hole that you overlooked, or one showed up before you had the time to install such countermeasures...

Edit: That quote failed so badly and I'm not even sure how.

[EmperorJon]

Believe me, should digging every become possible I will be turning it off in the init (as is said on the dev. page)

Don't get me wrong, I think it's epic. I just don't want some gobbo attack or a giant green emaciated flamingo bursting out of the dining room floor.

HAI GUYS!


EDIT: Comic on the way.

[agatharchides]

Yeah, I'd be fine with attackers able to go around/over walls and through some dirt or stone, but I don't know that I want them digging through everything like dwarves. Then all such defenses are useless and I like to design fortresses. The aquifer thing is interesting though.

[ThrowerOfStones]

It's hard to imagine a balanced way to allow invaders to dig.

I mean, maybe if it was through dirt only, or unsmoothed stone.

But otherwise you'll just get into a situation where it's impossible to build a fortress because it's just gonna get torn down.

I think the current state is fine, where it's possible to wall yourself in entirely but doing so limits you immensely. This is only more the case with trade becoming more important and (metal) resources scarcer. I think moving towards less self sufficiency is definitely a better route than moving towards letting invaders dig into fortresses.

[agatharchides]

You could also give them a limited use digging tool, like a pickaxe that breaks after, say 5 rock tiles or 10 soil tiles.

[JimboOmega]

The obvious solution is the somewhat reasonable one, where they can get through the walls, but it's very slow and it requires some specialized subset of units.

If they can have total domination of the outside, they should be able to eventually breach your walls.  If you have a tower with fortifications from which you can shoot down at them, then you're in good shape, though they can shoot back - in other words, like a real seige.  (Gobbo siege engines that can knock down walls and punch holes in the earth would be a pretty nice addition, to be honest...)

I seriously dislike the present situation where, oh look, I built a wall/bridge/etc, now the enemy can never possibly get in.  I never design my forts that way - I always keep the path to the inside clear (but not of traps, guard towers, etc.) 

I also don't think Toady intends enemies that will effectively 3-d path through the dirt and rock to a vulnerable part of your fortress, mining through everything as dwarves currently do - though of course, if the number of diggers is small, and you know where they're going, you can set up defenses where you expect to be breached.  Can you imagine pushing them back through their hole and then sealing it? 

Clowns digging should be absurd enough without much more thought.

[PwndJa]

It's hard to imagine a balanced way to allow invaders to dig.

I mean, maybe if it was through dirt only, or unsmoothed stone.

But otherwise you'll just get into a situation where it's impossible to build a fortress because it's just gonna get torn down.

I think the current state is fine, where it's possible to wall yourself in entirely but doing so limits you immensely. This is only more the case with trade becoming more important and (metal) resources scarcer. I think moving towards less self sufficiency is definitely a better route than moving towards letting invaders dig into fortresses.

I agree. I wouldn't want standard goblins being able to dig into my fort, because then I have no use for walls. Goblins being able to being siege weapons to tear down my walls..... Well that's another story.

As for digging, IMO it should be limited to megabeasts as a random trait if it is ever implemented.

[noob]

moats ftw. if they need to be next to the wall then moats would make you safe. if catapults could shoot the walls down however...

[EveryZig]

moats ftw. if they need to be next to the wall then moats would make you safe. if catapults could shoot the walls down however...

But by then the goblins will probably be able to make bridges/ramps.

Hmm... Huge megabeasts trying to dig down into your underground base (possibly containing moving fortress parts) to kill everyone within... This is starting to sound like Dwarf Evangelion.

(did I get the theme song stuck in anybody's head?)