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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback  (Read 12166 times)

Jiri Petru

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2011, 06:56:39 am »

I think I should elaborate on what I meant...

When Toady speaks, there's usually lots of point that could use more explanation or that hint at fantastic possibilities but leave them unexplained. Toady probably doesn't realise if he describes something too superficially, because he already has everything in his head. But I would appreciate the moderators coming up with questions like: "Wait, does this mean that..." or "And how does feature X interact with feature Y?", things like that. "You're saying goblins do not need to eat now - are they supposed to eat in the future?" Doing an interview isn't asking a list of prepared questions, and isn't what I meant. A good interviewer listens to the interviewed person and identifies points that could use more spotlight.

Or in other words: a bit more interaction between the three (or two) of you guys would made the talk more lively, and I believe more interesting.
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hermes

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2011, 11:00:05 am »

Yeah, I like the rambling.

Me too, and having it in two sections works well.  And the Blade Runner quote was awesome.
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kylcarte

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2011, 12:05:08 pm »

Here's a thought/question: You talk about reclaiming ruins and beasties guarding ancient hoards and so on. If, as an adventurer, you come across a map to a famous place, it would make sense for that place to already be picked over, or taken over, or somehow devalued. On the other hand, if for example you find an esoteric map in some forgotten ruin, chances would be higher that the ruins lay untouched. Do you have any plans to move past the guardian beast as a catch all for ruins, perhaps using it instead as one of a number of situations in which you might find ruins?

This brings up the question of sellable/exportable maps. In dwarf mode, if maps are a top export of your fortress, perhaps you would draw more (and more skillful) immigrants, maybe even drawing from dwarven civilizations other than your own, along with a higher risk of invasion, or looting, or whatever. Fame has its benefits and its costs.
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Neonivek

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2011, 04:06:29 pm »

Anyhow

Thanks Rainseeker, Cap, and Toady for another Dwarf Fortress Talk.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2011, 04:42:01 pm »

The bit about adventurer fear got me wondering. Fear is relatively common effect in games, whether induced by magic or not. In D&D, there specifically is some kind of dragon fear as an ability of major dragons. Of course, if such fear effects were going in, they shouldn't turn into "you can't slay ye dragon", so I guess they would need to manifest as some kind of penalty where you can fight rather than being forced into flight. This gets worse with mind control effects - should the adventurer be immune to being turned into Renfield? Probably so, but some players might want to seek out such a relationship (though I guess they could take over such a slave if those and taking over historical figures go in).
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Neonivek

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2011, 04:51:14 pm »

Well in Dungeons and Dragons creatures have unnatural fear which isn't fear as we know it in real life.

The game already assumes your characters are fearless, or essentially fearless, in dungeons and dragons hense why being trapped in a box with spiders doesn't cause fear.

Though I wouldn't mind creatures with unnatural fear causing effects in Dwarf Fortress especially with some of the creatures.
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Lac

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2011, 05:33:43 pm »

"A person is no different to a tree, if they are doing treelike things."
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myrkul

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2011, 10:01:18 pm »

"A person is no different to a tree, if they are doing treelike things."

Well, other than the ability to choose NOT to do tree-like things...
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Heph

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2011, 10:13:16 pm »

Shut up and grow leaves!  ;)
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malimbar04

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2011, 12:02:14 am »

Make like a tree, an get out of here!

Back on topic, trees *cough*

I mean the podcast is much appreciated. I don't really have any critiques as I wasn't looking for them, but it was enjoyable to listen to.
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Capntastic

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2011, 01:03:22 am »

Realistically, Toady should be using D&D as a map of what-to-do-the-opposite-of.
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Neonivek

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2011, 01:09:14 am »

Realistically, Toady should be using D&D as a map of what-to-do-the-opposite-of.

There are some things dungeons and dragons does well and other things it does so horribly that I am surprised they get away with it.
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Cruxador

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2011, 02:59:08 am »

Realistically, Toady should be using D&D as a map of what-to-do-the-opposite-of.
In most cases, yes. And normal fear in DF should not be like D&D's fear mechanic. But it's a pretty good mechanic for supernatural fear, and if Toady ever wants to go that route, it's not a bad jumping-off point.

But honestly, I only see supernatural fear as being something that would effect normal fear rolls, making enemy formations more likely to break and flee in battle, and stuff like that.
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Capntastic

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2011, 03:11:07 am »

I've got some lengthy ideas with regards to DF character personalities and the degree of control over your characters they should have, but they might be best saved for a future talk.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #11: Feedback
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2011, 08:00:29 am »

Realistically, Toady should be using D&D as a map of what-to-do-the-opposite-of.
Mechanically, sure, for the most part. DF really does not want classes, levels, or hit points. Conceptually and flavorwise, much of that, too. It surely doesn't want drow elves worshiping spiders or scorpions as a default race (though mods should be able to add them, and perhaps they might be able to arise procedurally). But trying to avert all things that D&D does whether flavor-wise, mechanically, or concept-wise, would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater in my opinion. D&D has done about everything fantasy-related, up to including science fiction, and what it hasn't done, another TSR or Wizards brand surely has.

I understand the sentiment - Dwarf Fortress is its own game, and should (and will!) stay that way. Not a copy of D&D, GURPS, or The Dark Eye. But the question should be "Is it a good idea for Dwarf Fortress?" The D&D mention from me was incidental to the idea that some kind of fear might work for DF.
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