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Author Topic: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]  (Read 1253 times)

Thrin

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Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« on: February 25, 2011, 12:08:44 am »

Okay, so I thought 'It'd be cool to have a race of demons running around.' So I got world tinker, genned a world and stole the demons from it. However, that just gives me a bunch of creatures. What I need is help with putting them together using castes.

My plan is to have a really tough human analogue as the main breeding creature (thinking stereotypical devil), but have a decent number of real demons popping up as well. (Generally speaking, about 1 of every true demon type for every 100 low demon) I need help with what tags are at the caste level, and what is not. It's not very clear which is which on the wiki, except where it's obvious. I could also use some tips on how much I need to put before we start doing the castes.

Here's a sample demon.

Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:DEMON_2]
[NAME:steam ghost:steam ghosts:steam ghost]
[CASTE_NAME:steam ghost:steam ghosts:steam ghost]
[GENERATED]
[DEMON]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:RANGED_COMBAT:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:10]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[DIFFICULTY:10]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:5:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:5]
[MALE]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:450:1050:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:450:1050:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:450:1050:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:RECUPERATION:450:1050:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:DISEASE_RESISTANCE:700:1300:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:ANALYTICAL_ABILITY:1250:1500:1750:2000:2500:3000:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:FOCUS:1250:1500:1750:2000:2500:3000:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:WILLPOWER:1250:1500:1750:2000:2500:3000:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:PATIENCE:0:333:666:1000:2333:3666:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:1250:1500:1750:2000:2500:3000:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:LINGUISTIC_ABILITY:450:1050:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:MUSICALITY:0:333:666:1000:2333:3666:5000]
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:SOCIAL_AWARENESS:700:1300:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:DEPRESSION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ASSERTIVENESS:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[NO_DRINK]
[NO_EAT]
[NO_SLEEP]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[MAGMA_VISION]
[EVIL]
[FANCIFUL]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[PETVALUE:2000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[TRAPAVOID]
[NOPAIN]
[NOSTUN]
[NONAUSEA]
[NOFEAR]
[NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NO_FEVERS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:LUST]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:10000000]
[CREATURE_TILE:'&']
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[BODY:RCP_UPPER_BODY:RCP_LOWER_BODY:RCP_HEAD:RCP_SIMPLE_FRONT_LEGS:RCP_SIMPLE_REAR_LEGS:RCP_TWO_WINGS]
[FLIER]
[TISSUE:UNIFORM_TIS]
[TISSUE_NAME:tissue:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:WATER]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:GAS]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:UNIFORM_TIS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[NOBREATHE]
[EXTRAVISION]
[FIXED_TEMP:10200]
[FIREIMMUNE]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[DESCRIPTION:A huge quadruped composed of steam.  It has wings and it squirms and fidgets.]
[PREFSTRING:horrifying features]

I plan on putting a lot of the [NO_] tags and similar as well as the [EVIL] tags at creature level, and taking out the underground aspects. I don't know how many of the rest need to be creature level. Do I even need to put any body data at the creature level? How about the baby/child tags? Do they need to be creature level? Or can I have Demons grow faster/slower then the demons?
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3

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 12:20:42 am »

Things (from that specific def) I know that are creature-level for sure:
- Biomes/underground depth
- Alignment/savagery
- Spheres

Things I've got a hunch about:
- Pop num/cluster num
- Fanciful
- LARGE_ROAMING/LARGE_PREDATOR (these shouldn't affect you - they shouldn't be on a civ creature anyway - but they could lead to some interesting stuff that I haven't gotten around to testing yet)

Pretty much everything else on that specific def is caste-level.

Do I even need to put any body data at the creature level?

No, but it's obviously more efficient to put the universal parts at the creature level so you don't end up repeating yourself. Also, keep in mind that bodyparts are loaded in the order they're defined. Giving the creature a universal "heart" or something before giving them a body would cause issues.

Also remember to define attacks after defining all the caste bodies, even if those attacks are universal, so you don't end up with random parts being left out.

How about the baby/child tags?

Only GENERAL_CHILD_NAME/GENERAL_BABYNAME are at the creature level. The rest can be whatever.
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 02:28:49 am »

Thanks for the quick reply! I've been going through my selection of demons, and did you know there in a [NO_GENDER] tag? I have never seen it before, and it's only come up once, on a 'skinless devil'. Wonder what it'll do...
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3

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 02:33:29 am »

NO_GENDER was used pre-31.xx when we didn't have castes to assign sexes to. I don't think it does anything right now, but it's interesting that it should appear there (it doesn't exist anywhere in the non-save raws, to my knowledge).
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 03:00:39 am »

Ah, I guess it could be that Toady just forgot to update that part of his demon generator.

Okay, so I got the creature aspect ready, and it works!... To an extent. All the demons are showing up in the arena, but they all seem to have a lot more limbs and bodies then I saw in the raws, and the materials they spew seem to be un-named. Now I just have to find out where I messed up, and fix it.
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3

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 03:05:41 am »

When you declare body parts within a caste, those parts are created in addition to the base parts. If I gave the base creature the HUMANOID body and a caste the QUADRUPED body, the caste would have both HUMANOID and QUADRUPED parts at the same time.

The materials business is likely due to certain mats not having names in certain states (liquid wood is called "n/a", for example). This can be fixed within the creature as any other template modification.
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 04:11:55 am »

Well, I fixed some of the problems. It turns out I left some demons as [CREATURE:] rather then [CASTE:], so it was grabbing that creature's body parts and adding the rest. Also, it seems that, at least in some cases, it's the creature's own blood that's not being named.

Here's one of the creatures:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's spouting 'unknown creature substance' from it's wounds. I made the probable problem area bold. I checked, and Goo has all three states named, so  I have no idea what would be wrong. Well, it might be the LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT, I guess, But I'm not sure.
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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 05:12:29 am »

Does the base creature have a NAME? It's independent to the CASTE_NAME, and is used in some instances.
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 05:39:53 am »

Yeah, 'daemon'. Here's the base creature:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The creature class was to make sure the various syndromes didn't affect the rest of the castes, before I just started making the DAEMON creature and all it's castes immune. Also planning on making some sort of 'demonbane' syndrome that damages most of the demons.

Here's the basic, lesser demon (female is just like the male, but with [FEMALE])
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 08:25:09 pm »

Okay, so after a lot of testing, I still haven't found the solution. (Fixed a problem I didn't know I had though.) I've even taken the original demon I based the troublemaker on and made it a separate creature. It's goo comes out just fine, named and everything, even though the only differance is one is a caste, the other a creature. And I know the blood tag works just fine at the caste level, so that's not the problem. in fact, changing goo to blood makes it work just fine. But I want my demons to bleed goo, damn it! I'm just running out of ideas as to what's wrong here.

I know it's a relatively minor problem, as the creature works just fine as a civ, but it bugs the heck out of me.
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Lebo

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 01:25:14 pm »

The problem is with the amount of castes.

I noticed that if you have more than, was it 8 castes, something goes wrong and you get the sort of blood problems you do. It doesn't really do anything else except annoy the hell out of you, so that's good.

The only solution I know of is to have the max amount of castes make up the civ.

I MIGHT be wrong with this, but Deon's Genesis mod and the extended dorfs with special castes might have had more than 8, but that guy also knows much more about modding than I do so yeah. If he has it right then there's a way to get past the blood errors. Requires a lot more extensive modding though, last I checked his caste raws, anyway.
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 02:27:39 am »

Well, I'm not sure that was the case, but regardless, I managed to 'fix' it. I had several [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:] tags all called 'GOO', and changing that to 'GOO1', 'GOO2' ect. worked, for the most part. After 'GOO6' they broke again, so I just added [STATE_NAME:] tags for generic 'daemon goo' and had [BLOOD:] call that. The deadly ones got the daemon's name added.

Thanks for all the help, 3 and Lebo! If people want, I'll post the raws for them, but I have a feeling if you wanted them, you'd make them yourselves.
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Alkhemia

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 12:01:09 pm »

Well, I'm not sure that was the case, but regardless, I managed to 'fix' it. I had several [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:] tags all called 'GOO', and changing that to 'GOO1', 'GOO2' ect. worked, for the most part. After 'GOO6' they broke again, so I just added [STATE_NAME:] tags for generic 'daemon goo' and had [BLOOD:] call that. The deadly ones got the daemon's name added.

Thanks for all the help, 3 and Lebo! If people want, I'll post the raws for them, but I have a feeling if you wanted them, you'd make them yourselves.

Why not sounds !!FUN!!
Edit: Fixed
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 06:43:39 pm by Alkhemia »
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Thrin

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Re: Need help with creating a Clown Civ... [Spoilers!]
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 06:15:26 pm »

I do believe you mean Fun, but here it is anyway: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3876

Please note, I haven't tested these beyond the arena and world gen using a copy of the goblin civ entity.  Once I create a proper entity file for them, I'll update this topic.
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