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Author Topic: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike  (Read 42819 times)

Xeldrakka

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #450 on: January 05, 2013, 03:10:38 am »

I might have to invest in that, though I'm already overdrawn for skills as it.. it hasn't been that much a problem yet.

In truth I'm REALLY interested in this mech design thing, but so far it's beating the crap out of me. I mean, I get most of the basics, but the Mechtype/number at the top (Buruburus, Vadels and Duams are Battleroid 5, where as the Galah is Battleroid 4.. the Wraith is Aerofighter 4, the Corriach is Aerofighter 6 and the Kraken is Aerofighter 10) is still a bit beyond.. is it a reference to locations? And furthermore, how does one improve and decrease the inherent MV, TR, SE and mass of these machines and their components. And after that, the equipping and modification of weaponry likewise remains a bit beyond me.

Ahh the mysteries of modifications. This is probably the first game I've encountered where the prospect of modding it is one I might go for.
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beorn080

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #451 on: January 05, 2013, 03:21:42 am »

MV and TR and Mass are all inherent values, based on each other. There are ways to modify them aside from modifying the mass, but I can't recall them. As for the name/number thing, I'm PRETTY sure that is the mechs size, but I could be wrong.
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Xeldrakka

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #452 on: January 05, 2013, 04:27:34 am »

MV and TR and Mass are all inherent values, based on each other. There are ways to modify them aside from modifying the mass, but I can't recall them. As for the name/number thing, I'm PRETTY sure that is the mechs size, but I could be wrong.

Okay.. so on some of these custom models, where I'm seeing a mass change in certain parts, they're what makes the machine lighter, and said lightness improves the stats on the mech? For example.. the SAN-X12 Assault Buru-Buru shows.. a basic head slot with Armor 4 and mass 1, and Torso armor 4, mass 1. Then we take the SAN-X9g Heavyfoot Buru-Buru and suddenly we have mass 3 and 4 respectively.. so these numbers are modifiers to the machine's actual weight? And negative masses on some of the other mechs, I suppose, would indicate an actual positive modifier to the machine's movement and such?
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Blaze

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #453 on: January 05, 2013, 05:15:12 am »

MV and TR and Mass are all inherent values, based on each other. There are ways to modify them aside from modifying the mass, but I can't recall them. As for the name/number thing, I'm PRETTY sure that is the mechs size, but I could be wrong.

Okay.. so on some of these custom models, where I'm seeing a mass change in certain parts, they're what makes the machine lighter, and said lightness improves the stats on the mech? For example.. the SAN-X12 Assault Buru-Buru shows.. a basic head slot with Armor 4 and mass 1, and Torso armor 4, mass 1. Then we take the SAN-X9g Heavyfoot Buru-Buru and suddenly we have mass 3 and 4 respectively.. so these numbers are modifiers to the machine's actual weight? And negative masses on some of the other mechs, I suppose, would indicate an actual positive modifier to the machine's movement and such?
Your mecha's mass depends on the mass of its parts so yes and no. Obviously, lighter mecha move faster. You cannot apply a mass modifier to the entire mecha, just any given part of it.

The "Armor 4" tag doesn't affect weight, it determines the amount of DP that part gets, I believe it's 25DP per armor level.
A part's mass is derived from its DC or DV and is then modified by the "Mass" tag (If any). Any installed equipment also counts towards that parts weight, which is something to remember when modding ammo-based weapons, particularly missiles; since most of the weight is in its magazine.

I believe each mass level counts as 0.1kg for personal scale equipment, 0.1t for scale 1 mecha, and 0.5t for scale 2 mecha; the mass tag can be negative (Which lowers weight) or positive (Which increases weight).

Parts cannot go below 0 weight, and don't try to make 0 weight mecha since that causes a Divide by 0 error.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 05:19:37 am by Blaze »
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Xeldrakka

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #454 on: January 05, 2013, 06:47:05 am »

Sounds good. A zero weight, super buff god-mecha would be no fun anyways. I'm more trying to design something that would fall between a Vadel and Savin in design, and throw a few unique little weapons on it. Flavor stuff mostly.
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Xeldrakka

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #455 on: January 05, 2013, 10:03:57 am »

Ha. Awesome. After numerous attempts to nail down the exacting nature of some of the game's language, I finally got my own machine up and running. So only three last questions remain before I fade back into lurker obscurity.

1: How does one implement his home fashioned mecha into the campaign/arena modes?

2: Is it considered poor sport to beat the game with a home designed mecha and lay it out as part of a victory dump?

3: Are the campaign/RPG files likewise so malleable? I ask because this game interests me and a few friends of mine enough that there has been some consideration for making a total conversion mod for the campaign to create a more consistent and compelling RP storyline of our own design. I want to know if anyone thinks this is feasible.

Thank you all for your time, advice and input!
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Frumple

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #456 on: January 05, 2013, 10:27:13 am »

In truth I'm REALLY interested in this mech design thing, but so far it's beating the crap out of me. I mean, I get most of the basics, but the Mechtype/number at the top (Buruburus, Vadels and Duams are Battleroid 5, where as the Galah is Battleroid 4.. the Wraith is Aerofighter 4, the Corriach is Aerofighter 6 and the Kraken is Aerofighter 10) is still a bit beyond.. is it a reference to locations?
Th'folks above covered the rest of the questions related to this well, but here's some confirmation on what Beorn said:

Those numbers in particular refer to size, specifically the size of the mecha in general. A aerofighter 1 will be smaller (weigh less, have less slots for equipment per component, have less armor/HP per body part, etc.) than an aerofighter 10. This is independant of any mass modification or whathaveyou inherent to the limbs themselves.

As for adjusting MV/TR, in GH2 it's accomplished (outside of changing mass) primarily by software. Iirc, it was different in GH1, but I can't recall exactly how at the moment.

To your next set of questions:
1: Give them a faction (Iirc, there's a general one of some sort if you don't want them used by particular groups) and a... role? Something like that, shows up as GROUND, SPACE, etc. Then stick the file in the mecha folder with the rest of 'em and they'll start showing up in shops and combat. Simple as that, iirc.

2: Not really, though it depends on how out of line compared to stock mecha the machine is. Many (most?) winner machines end up buggered with by mecha engineering so much they might as well be homebrew :P

3: Unfortunately, no. They can be mucked with, but it takes an annoying amount of effort and, iirc, uses a custom scripting language of some sort or another.  It's been done and (again, when the wiki/forum/etc. come back in full) there's some (user created, mostly) documentation for it, but it's a notably more daunting task than stuffing the game full of new items and mecha.

S'the major reason Mr. H and a few others are working on converting GH2 to python (Now... I think it started attempting to convert to LUA scripting, but things change, I guess.), so the rest of the content is more accessible to folks.

E: As for modding weaponry, that's somewhat more involved. It looks like the forum's back up, so go give a gander at the game mechanics subforum, where a lot of the modding guides end up. This in particular might help, to toot my own horn a bit. I think it was still accurate up until development on the current/old GH2 stopped and the conversion process started. Do note that I probably can't clarify anything in that or later posts anymore, because I don't remember any of it :P
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 10:38:34 am by Frumple »
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beorn080

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #457 on: January 05, 2013, 12:11:09 pm »

As an addendum to Frumple's post Re:Mecha Engineering.

In both GH1 and GH2, there is a talent called Innovation, which you can pick up at 10 mecha engineering. Pretty sure it has the highest reqs of any talent, and for good reason. It lets you bypass the initial hard limit of how much you can install in a mech. However, if you got used to it in GH1, in which there was no upper hard limit once you got Innovation, be warned there is a hard limit even with innovation in GH2. Personally, I found Engineering much less useful in GH2, but I can't quite put my finger on WHY. Might be the abundance of mounting points on most mechs.

Oh, and when you get your first 2-4 packs of extra swarm missiles, unload them and stock your mech with reloads. You'd be amazed how effective 4 shots of 20 swarm-20 missiles are, and they're fairly cheap to reload.
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Frumple

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #458 on: January 05, 2013, 12:22:06 pm »

Actually, iirc there's no hard limit in GH2 once you get innovation, either. It's just a mostly insurmountable soft limit :P

Could very much be wrong, there, though. It's been a while, but I could have sworn some of my cheat characters just laughed and started playing GH1 in SPAAACE (via their knowledge/m.engineering score being in the hundreds :P). And yeah, m.engineering is somewhat less powerful in GH2, but it's still pretty incredible. It just leans a bit more towards part swapping (switching limbs, moving stuff around to optimize, etc. Slap a set of light wings on a trailblazer, ferex, to get a really dominate early game machine.) than the silly (if delightful) stuff you'd get up to in GH1. You can get some pretty serious gains out of mucking around with stock mecha.
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beorn080

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Re: GearHead 2 - Mecha Roguelike
« Reply #459 on: January 05, 2013, 01:53:37 pm »

I think I just realized why engineering isn't as good in GH2. The stock mechs are better. Even the Buru buru line is fairly decent, and some of them (I'm looking at you crossbones BuruBuru) are actually fairly potent.

Edit: I think I might do a series of mecha additions to GH2. There are a lot of things that should be in there that aren't. Zoanoids, groundcars and huggers. Plus assorted cheap mechs for those times when all you can afford is a helicopter with a machine gun.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:15:52 pm by beorn080 »
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.
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