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Author Topic: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal  (Read 310678 times)

martinuzz

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2340 on: April 30, 2017, 04:23:40 am »

If you're worried about stuns, consider taking the prodigy that makes you immune to physical effects after being hit by one. I think it's called Spine of the World. Then again, PES is nice. I think I'd have gone with PES as a first prodigy instead of windblade. Windblade isn't a terrible choice though. You might still get stunned with SotW, but there won't be a follow up of many more physical debuffs, making it easier to get rid of.
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2341 on: April 30, 2017, 10:44:40 am »

Cat point wise, if you have spares, when in doubt inscription slot. There's not many points where another rune or infusion is going to hurt -- CPD would probably be great for you, ferex, and if you're worried about confusion, you can nab the appropriate rune (biting gale would even give you a good chunk of -stunres, for what it's worth). Kinda' unfortunate you're not playing with embers, 'cause that's another obvious one for undead (tinkers are bloody golden for 'em). Skeleton thing is also a bit off the beaten path, too... there's precisely one insane win with a rogue subclass in the character vault, and it's a skirmisher from back in the 1.3.X range. Ideally you'd unlock another tree, but you're only so likely to have enough points for it to mean much, and the obvious one (assassination) is largely contingent on having invested into stealth beforehand. Dirty fighting wouldn't exactly be bad, though. If you go that route and put much into backstab, I'd definitely suggest diversifying your kit a bit -- aim for on-melee daze and blind, random gloom (and/or maybe torment... pretty sure one or both of those can stun or silence, and the gloom definitely can confuse -- you can code dive the egos if you're particularly curious), randart crippling dagger, that kind of thing. Conceptually, even at 1/5, if you can stack the lot of the appropriate effects on something it's like a 40% damage buff or thereabout, and it's not like a 20 or 25% boost is something to sneer at.

Prodigy wise, finishing off device mastery and getting swift hands might be interesting, so long as you're willing and able to leverage it. Though you'd get more out of that if you've been squirreling away artifacts over the course of the game. Habitually collect the things so regularly I sometimes forget other folks don't, heh. If you're willing to do a bit of grinding and haven't already qualified for it, cauterize could be good for a defensive measure. Just spam runes for a bit, maybe find something to set on fire a bunch (can't remember if hitting yourself qualifies for the damage needed, though). If you're really worried about stun, at least, you might even consider temporal form -- 10 turns of stun immunity on call isn't exactly terrible. Draconic will is also a thought on that front, though I don't quite remember if undead can qualify for it or not -- I think eating the sandworm heart works, but can't recall. Half the duration, but blanket immunity instead of stun and some other stuff you're not much worried about.

Class point wise... you'll at least want snap, from what you have available. Might consider getting the tier 3+4 throwing knife talents up and running, for that extra damage+disable. Definitely kind of a shame you haven't invested in stealth and probably don't have the points for it at this point -- it, particularly plus assassination, is pretty beastly once it's fully invested and your cunning's topped off. Quick check of the character vault shows that every roguelike insane rogue winner (all five of them, ha) since 1.5.0 had decent investment in at least stealth, and all but one in assassination, too... though one of them was cheating like goddamn and playing the area besides, now that I look at it.

Merch stuff, definitely pick up another weapon, or try for armor (/boots/cloak, particularly if you happen to decide to put some amount of points into stealth -- those are the two item slots that have much of a chance of rolling +stealth). Shantiz the imbablade is indeed something you can just kinda' offhand forever, but the swordbreaker at level 45 and looking at the endgame is just kinda' suicide. Even that voratun randart you have in your inventory would be doing you notably more good. One thing I'm definitely noticing you're missing, kit wise... if you can get some on-melee slow (preferably capped out at 60%, but even 30-45 would be great) in there somewhere, it would probably be pretty helpful. Thing's basically the god-stat for melee characters. You have a couple of amulets with 30 (and the 25% nature pen would be nice-ish since you have so much poison tree investment), and a ring you could probably swap the steel one you're wearing out with safely enough. Could probably stand to be swapping in your other light when you're actually fighting, if you're not already, now that I look at 'em.

'Bout all I can think of at this particular moment, though. Definitely would suggest taking a minute or five and eyeballing the insane rogue winners since 1.5.0 (since the rogue change came in), see what they're doing that you're not and all that. Conceptually you might consider asking over on the main T4 forum... there's definitely more regular insane players loitering around there that could potentially give good advice. Not sure if I'd blame you if you didn't, though, heh. Some of 'em are also kinda' jackasses, and you'd almost certainly catch flak for running an undead rogue in insane to begin with. Might get a good response, might just get a bit of abuse and nothing besides "play something else".
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AlStar

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2342 on: April 30, 2017, 09:39:05 pm »

Managed to actually win. Given how many problems I've had previously, I feel good.

https://te4.org/characters/216852/tome/a69ebf08-428e-432e-a4ae-3e942998aab3
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 09:40:43 pm by AlStar »
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2343 on: May 01, 2017, 08:05:28 am »

It's actually more than 14 class points, from where you're at to level 50, by the by. There's an extra glut when you hit 50, though I forget the exact amount... somewhere between 5 and 10, in any case. Something similar for generics and stat points. Either way you'd have just about enough to go 4/5 or so in any two talents between stealth and assassination, which'd actually be pretty solid if you're leveraging it for specific junk. 1/X/1/X in stealth, where X1 is whatever and X2 is however much it takes to stop giving duration boosts, then 1/1/X/X would give you a vaguely disgusting amount of upfront burst and a nice silence + unarmed procs, though you'd probably want to dump points into combat accuracy instead of the skeleton tier 1 racial, in that case. Basically ignoring the general defensive aspects and leaning on shadow dance to give you a few turns of significantly increased crit multiplier (which is particularly huge considering your crit rate is already up there) and assassination to pile on more pain. 8 points upfront to get every talent in both trees active, leaving you two flex at the time of your post and another 10-ish left over at 50 to stuff where you can, with priority probably going to dance and shadowstrike or marked for death.

As for snap, it is fairly expensive, but it's also kinda' ridiculous with higher investment (though if you went for the above, higher investment wouldn't really be something on the table. 4/5 is a full reset on 7 of any of your combat or cunning techniques, which effectively means you get two full rotations before having to wait on cooldowns, instead of just the one. Incidentally, while I totally hear you about the micro, swift hands + one of the second wind active body armors could help quite a bit with the costs, ehehe.

Prodigy wise, though... spine would do you. Considering the lower/lack of cooldown, it's possibly even better for a long fight. Buuuuut temporal form is upfront, blocks most of the same things, and gives you some non-trivial talent access on the side -- two sources of teleportation, an area pull, and a -res debuff to hit things with, mitigating some of that physpen concern you mentioned (and the damage conversion helps with that, anyway). Plus storm, which is less interesting but still might be a'ight AoE damage. You'd just have to pay attention to it, and the CD is actually meaningful, heh. Think I'd probably recommend spine anyway, just because it's passive, but it's possibly worth thinking about. Also fairly sure cauterize pings shields, though it bypasses resistances and whatnot, so it'd still be pretty fine for a shield heavy build.

Last bit, at th'mo, would definitely recommend evasion over light defense or skellie racial, regardless of whatever else you do. A few stat points and some defense isn't all that impressive at the point you're at, but four turns of an extra 30-ish % chance to avoid non-spells (that can be affected by snap, by the by, should you put points into it, which would double the effective duration) is nothing to sneeze at, and the defense boost isn't exactly inconsiderable, either. It's something to consider, though it's also yet another talent to keep track of, and a fairly expensive one to boot. At least has the decency to be instant use, ha.

E: Well, last bit except to note re: chat's talk on stat investment, the critical multiplier from shadowstrike + dance would most likely give you more damage than just about any strength investment you're capable of could, at this point. If you're looking primarily for more damage output. Crit multiplier is probably the best damage stat in the game, late game. Stat wise, I'd... probably recommend checking if any of the runes you're using or want to use scales off a stat you don't have maxed, then go for that one. Doesn't look like it, giving a check, but it's a thought.

E2: Ah, and amusing side note re: trapping: There's actually an insane or madness, iirc, rogue win in a pre-1.5.0 build that went with heavy trapping and staff use, of all things. Basically took shadowstrike and gravitic trap and then did horrible things to everything. It was pretty hilarious, heh.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 08:13:51 am by Frumple »
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DeKaFu

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2344 on: May 02, 2017, 12:27:54 pm »

Well, beat EoR on the first try with my Orc Sawbutcher.

Definitely felt invincible for most of the game past the very start. Not sure if that's because Sawbutchers are crazy good or the campaign was just easier.

Enjoyed the writing quite a bit. A lot more tied-together and plot-heavy than the main campaign, which was awesome, though we'll see if that makes it more or less fun to do multiple runs of.

My one disappointment was not getting to finish the Pocket of Distorted Time due to it throwing up a LUA error as soon as I hit the second floor. :-\ (I killed the process for fear of damaging my save). Well, that and never finding the Lightning Coil recipe to make my steam-powered armor.

Spoilery question about the Ring of Lost Love:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also pretty sure I never had the opportunity to unlock the third race... is it missable/luck-based?

Planning a Whitehoof next, debating whether to try a Gunslinger or Arcane Blade (never used either). My hand pain's been flaring up like crazy though, so I might start cutting back my playtime for a while...
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2345 on: May 02, 2017, 12:52:31 pm »

I think putting him out of his misery results in a stat boost. Binding him results in the ring allowing you to, well, summon him.

I bound him, for the record.
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2346 on: May 02, 2017, 01:32:46 pm »

EoR feels better for a few plays, but RNG WILL conspire to keep you from getting that one component for the thing you want. Every time.

Yetis are unlocked by getting all 4 Cat points.

Spoiler: further clarification (click to show/hide)

Honestly, while the plot was slightly less heavy-handed than I expected, I'm still not sympathetic to the orcs in general, so I don't enjoy EoR as much as I would if the writing was a little better in both campaigns. But that's me.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2347 on: May 02, 2017, 03:17:38 pm »

Sawbutcher is indeed a fairly powerful class, particularly defensively and on lower difficulties. EoR... I'm not sure it's easier, exactly, but I would say the general power scaling and whatnot is less janky. It's a smoother campaign, as well as shorter, which makes it largely easier to play if not necessarily less difficult, if that makes sense. I tend to use it instead of the main campaign if I'm testing or playing around, since there's less downtime and the like.

Whitehoof try, I'd probably recommend the AB. Gunslingers manage, and I'm not sure if the toss/throw talent bug (it does/did the old beyond the flesh thing, proccing every time you move, regardless of how fast you're moving, which breaks the game over its knee) has been fixed yet or not, but they're somewhat undertuned compared to the other two steam classes without that bug, whereas ABs have long been one of the beastier classes and the arcane combat tweaks that came in a bit back made 'em less fiddly to play. Point or three into flame or lightning (preferably flame) will carry you through the early game, stone and arcane combat outputs faintly disgusting amounts of damage late, even after multiple nerfs. Bit of defense investment and you're golden.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2348 on: May 02, 2017, 04:20:41 pm »

EoR feels better for a few plays, but RNG WILL conspire to keep you from getting that one component for the thing you want. Every time.

Yetis are unlocked by getting all 4 Cat points.

Spoiler: further clarification (click to show/hide)

Honestly, while the plot was slightly less heavy-handed than I expected, I'm still not sympathetic to the orcs in general, so I don't enjoy EoR as much as I would if the writing was a little better in both campaigns. But that's me.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

DeKaFu

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2349 on: May 02, 2017, 05:03:30 pm »

EoR feels better for a few plays, but RNG WILL conspire to keep you from getting that one component for the thing you want. Every time.

Yetis are unlocked by getting all 4 Cat points.

Spoiler: further clarification (click to show/hide)

Honestly, while the plot was slightly less heavy-handed than I expected, I'm still not sympathetic to the orcs in general, so I don't enjoy EoR as much as I would if the writing was a little better in both campaigns. But that's me.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2350 on: May 02, 2017, 06:51:15 pm »

Oh shit. You're right I was wrong. I totally fucked that up, it's the rare drop. I'll quit talking now.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2351 on: May 02, 2017, 07:23:29 pm »

Re: controller
Pretty sure that's how it goes, anyway. Something close to it, regardless.
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Oneir

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2352 on: May 02, 2017, 08:50:56 pm »

Re: controller
Pretty sure that's how it goes, anyway. Something close to it, regardless.

Yeah, that's it. It's just rare enough to take a lot of restarts, though.
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2353 on: May 03, 2017, 09:34:48 am »

Hey now, that thing has a 100% chance to drop.

... and a 70% chance to be replaced by a random artifact :P

Chance is a bit less than one in three, basically. I'd probably recommend just editing the unlock in, heh. "race_yeti = true" sans quotes, in your allow_build.profile. Unlock addon thing Mind, despite unlocking everything legitimately at some point or another, I recommend that for any unlock you don't feel like bothering with/all of them. Pretty sure a few classes I hit the unlock requirements for with the class the requirements unlocked :V
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beorn080

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2354 on: May 03, 2017, 03:53:43 pm »

There is also a really old but still working perfectly addon that has the game ignore race and class locks, while not interfering with the behind the scenes unlock process. It just removes the checks for which things are locked, rather then giving you the unlock.
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