Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[arkhometha]

It's never prospected whole layers, it only prospects cluster types.

It has hidden functionality to prospect layer stones:

dfprospector.exe -ab

Enter that on the command line, or make a .bat file in the same directory with that as the only line.

It would be hilarious if there was a new bug and we have somehow been missing layers of hematite in the previous tests.

Would the results be different in more mountainous/volcanic regions? From what I remember hematite should be in igneous layers and sedimentary.

yes, it would for Igneous extrusive layers.  These are volcanic formations. In fact, the only time I found hematite was in a mountain. But several times I embarked on mountains with no hematite. Sedimentary is a filled valley, so to speak, so should be in the opposite of volcanic activity.

I didn't miss a hematite layer as I looked in the map with dfreveal.

It seems to be remarkably random, but a general "rule of thumb".  This was far too small of a pool to make and conclusive claims, but we ALL know how random the world generator can be.  If you were to repeat the test several more times with several different seeds, and started to graph the results, you'd probably get a vague curve.  After all, we've all had a .18 map with nothing on it, and .19 maps with so much ore you wonder how the whole world hasn't collapsed on itself.

Yes, I do agree but in 5 examples with a 500 interval, in each one, we should have seem some kind of pattern or variation. Some primitive draw of a curve should appear, yet none I saw. Looks oddly random.

Maybe someone will continue the testing. For me, it was rather frustrating discover that there isn't a pattern and I can't predict where to embark to get iron, copper or silver, a good amount of it, not much, not few, the amount to have to trade and all. Since even putting 5000 or 1500 I still can get a fucking lot of metals, I guess I will have to wait for someone to complete the research or do this myself later. For now, I'm gonna get some rest.

[BulMaster]

Maybe the scarcity settings is just a cosmetic thing and doesn't really do much? 

[daishi5]

For comparison, this is a 2x2 smaller region world, only settings changed from default were, cavern openness min max 100, lots of megabeasts, and 100 mineral occurrence.


BANDED AGATE : 3
CLEAR GARNET : 5
FORTIFICATION AGATE : 6
PINEAPPLE OPAL : 7
YELLOW GROSSULAR : 7
MOONSTONE : 12
JELLY OPAL : 13
TSAVORITE : 14
CALCITE : 15
CAT'S EYE : 15
OPAL_WHITE : 16
WAX OPAL : 17
PIPE OPAL : 18
NATIVE_PLATINUM : 19
OPAL_CLARO : 19
WHITE JADE : 20
CRYOLITE : 20
LAVENDER JADE : 21
CHRYSOPRASE : 23
AQUAMARINE : 23
RED GROSSULAR : 24
ALEXANDRITE : 27
GOLD OPAL : 27
PETRIFIED_WOOD : 28
TOPAZOLITE : 28
OPAL_REDFLASH : 29
PITCHBLENDE : 30
WOOD OPAL : 34
GREEN JADE : 34
MORGANITE : 34
YELLOW JASPER : 36
HELIODOR : 37
SALTPETER : 37
ONYX OPAL : 38
RESIN OPAL : 39
ONYX : 40
OPAL_CRYSTAL : 40
BLOODSTONE : 43
KUNZITE : 48
BLACK PYROPE : 49
EMERALD : 49
SCHORL : 51
PINK JADE : 52
BROWN JASPER : 60
SMOKY QUARTZ : 63
BISMUTHINITE : 68
BLUE GARNET : 69
TANZANITE : 79
ILMENITE : 79
CLEAR TOURMALINE : 88
MARCASITE : 88
HORNBLENDE : 88
INDIGO TOURMALINE : 93
CARNELIAN : 95
DIAMOND_LY : 98
HONEY YELLOW BERYL : 99
CASSITERITE : 101
RED ZIRCON : 103
GOLDEN BERYL : 105
RUTILE : 108
GREEN TOURMALINE : 110
PINK TOURMALINE : 110
GOSHENITE : 112
ALMANDINE : 119
SARD : 121
HORN_SILVER : 125
RED TOURMALINE : 126
CHRYSOBERYL : 132
GRAPHITE : 140
BLACK ZIRCON : 145
SPINEL_RED : 145
RHODOLITE : 149
RUBICELLE : 151
RED PYROPE : 151
YELLOW SPESSARTINE : 157
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 167
VIOLET SPESSARTINE : 175
YELLOW ZIRCON : 184
AMETHYST : 188
MORION : 201
PYROLUSITE : 208
QUARTZ_ROSE : 223
PINK GARNET : 225
CLEAR ZIRCON : 230
BROWN ZIRCON : 261
MILK QUARTZ : 266
CITRINE : 278
PYRITE : 342
LAPIS LAZULI : 356
SPINEL_PURPLE : 405
GREEN ZIRCON : 436
PRASE : 555
HEMATITE : 1189
LIGNITE : 1310
NATIVE_SILVER : 1749
MALACHITE : 1824
CINNABAR : 2225
BAUXITE : 2545
KAOLINITE : 3127
KIMBERLITE : 3129
COAL_BITUMINOUS : 3739
NATIVE_GOLD : 4227
SPHALERITE : 4395
TETRAHEDRITE : 6113
TALC : 6935
GALENA : 7397
COBALTITE : 8422
MICA : 15979
ORTHOCLASE : 17094
MICROCLINE : 39551
SLADE : 41605

It looks like I have some of everything. The world is only about 45 z levels from top to magma sea.

[MarcAFK]

i don't see any raw candy there

[Psieye]

It seems to be remarkably random, but a general "rule of thumb".  This was far too small of a pool to make and conclusive claims, but we ALL know how random the world generator can be.  If you were to repeat the test several more times with several different seeds, and started to graph the results, you'd probably get a vague curve.  After all, we've all had a .18 map with nothing on it, and .19 maps with so much ore you wonder how the whole world hasn't collapsed on itself.

Indeed, this experiment was conducted with the hypothesis that some very strong correlation would be seen between the parameter and the results. We've established the "ore creation algorithm" uses far more random numbers than was first predicted. Shouuld the experiment be continued, there'd need to be around 3~4 orders of magnitude more samples to get any meaningful statistics. Not something one person can carry out alone (in meaningful time before things change again 2 major releases later).

[ThrowerOfStones]

i don't see any raw candy there

I think that is possible in a 2x2 embark. You need a 4x4 at minimum to be guaranteed candy.

[BishopX]

My guess is that minerals are very lumpy, with large (1000+) veins being the norm for most common metals. So while mineral scarcity is probably important for detemining the global number of veins, local geography is probably much more important for determining what you have have access to.

For a more accurate picture I would suggest sampling an entire map square (i.e multiple embarks right next to each other), and then repeating this with 250 mineral variation each time (so ten steps between normal and maximum) on the same seed.

[Lemunde]

Are there any .18 and .19 tests for comparison?

[Lekegolo Khanid]

Reading through this made me facepalm a little. You should have changed only Scarcity right from the get go. To solve for a you need something like...

a+1+2=4

What wont work so well is

a+b+2=4

You have have more than one correct answer with that. ofc there are things like...


a+b+2=4
a-b+2=4

but that's needless complication. Sorry, I'm just obsessed with logic && efficiency.

[arkhometha]

Reading through this made me facepalm a little. You should have changed only Scarcity right from the get go.

Yeah, I know, forgot about that, sorry. girlinhat remembered me of that. The other tests were to see how to world varies, but I suppose they aren't of much use since we can't make a logic of the metal distribution.

Are there any .18 and .19 tests for comparison?

Could make this, but even with the same seed,the world would probably change. Will post the results just in a while.

My guess is that minerals are very lumpy, with large (1000+) veins being the norm for most common metals. So while mineral scarcity is probably important for detemining the global number of veins, local geography is probably much more important for determining what you have have access to.

For a more accurate picture I would suggest sampling an entire map square (i.e multiple embarks right next to each other), and then repeating this with 250 mineral variation each time (so ten steps between normal and maximum) on the same seed.

Too muck work. You could divide the map in biomes and regions and sample 20% of each one. Statistically, we should get the same results as sampling everything, with a little error, of course. But is too much work, maybe in a pocket region.

i don't see any raw candy there

I think that is possible in a 2x2 embark. You need a 4x4 at minimum to be guaranteed candy.

I think you are right. It seems that the new metal scarcity feature almost make vital for you to get a large embarks and different biomes so to get variety of metals. But this will cost your fps. 
On another hand, if you are talking about the blue candy, then seems like there is... none? This isn't right, everyone should have access to the circus! I think this is definitively a bug, but I also think that the metal scarcity influence the blue candy.

daishi5:
Strange, you got almost nothing of everything, expect gold, you got 4k and some bauxite and native silver. Seems like the other 100 scarcity result I saw. I begin to wonder if the more scarcity, the more variety, or that's just coincidence plus luck?

[arkhometha]

.18 World. Same site, same place, same seed. The world looks like the one created in .21. 4x4 embark, a mistake, but shouldn't alter the end result much. Strangely enough, the world seem filled to the core with non metal ores. Particularly diorete and gabbro.

Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
DIAMOND_BLACK : 2
OPAL_LEVIN : 4
CLEAR GARNET : 5
CHERRY OPAL : 5
BLACK ZIRCON : 5
OPAL_PINFIRE : 8
PYRITE : 10
DIAMOND_RED : 10
DIAMOND_CLEAR : 12
DIAMOND_BLUE : 17
DIAMOND_GREEN : 20
RED BERYL : 23
BONE OPAL : 25
PINEAPPLE OPAL : 28
ANHYDRITE : 32
DIAMOND_YELLOW : 33
CITRINE : 36
OPAL_PFIRE : 39
SELENITE : 40
SPINEL_PURPLE : 41
ALMANDINE : 42
OPAL_CLARO : 44
VIOLET SPESSARTINE : 50
JASPER OPAL : 51
DEMANTOID : 52
DIAMOND_LY : 53
RESIN OPAL : 56
WAX OPAL : 57
RUBICELLE : 57
GOLDEN BERYL : 63
SPINEL_RED : 65
STIBNITE : 70
TANZANITE : 79
ORPIMENT : 81
ONYX OPAL : 93
NATIVE_ALUMINUM : 94
BRIMSTONE : 108
PRASE OPAL : 109
MILK OPAL : 112
SARD : 123
GALENA : 138
AMBER OPAL : 140
HELIODOR : 154
REALGAR : 160
GREEN TOURMALINE : 197
INDIGO TOURMALINE : 210
HONEY YELLOW BERYL : 211
BLACK PYROPE : 212
CLEAR TOURMALINE : 215
RED PYROPE : 222
KUNZITE : 222
TOPAZ : 233
CAT'S EYE : 263
TURQUOISE : 277
ALEXANDRITE : 277
CRYOLITE : 279
GOSHENITE : 281
CLEAR ZIRCON : 339
PYROLUSITE : 347
AMETHYST : 371
PIPE OPAL : 373
DIAMOND_FY : 381
SMOKY QUARTZ : 406
SPHALERITE : 408
FIRE OPAL : 414
RHODOLITE : 464
PERIDOT : 468
RED ZIRCON : 475
AQUAMARINE : 484
SHELL OPAL : 487
GOLD OPAL : 496
EMERALD : 498
WHITE CHALCEDONY : 521
PETRIFIED_WOOD : 526
MORION : 528
BANDED AGATE : 557
SALTPETER : 560
PITCHBLENDE : 568
YELLOW ZIRCON : 570
YELLOW JASPER : 583
TIGEREYE : 618
CHRYSOBERYL : 671
CHROMITE : 761
BISMUTHINITE : 787
NATIVE_PLATINUM : 1015
ILMENITE : 1078
TIGER IRON : 1147
SERPENTINE : 1159
HORN_SILVER : 1212
BROWN ZIRCON : 1212
HEMATITE : 1587
JELLY OPAL : 1713
NATIVE_COPPER : 1829
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 2038
COAL_BITUMINOUS : 4119
COBALTITE : 6873
MAGNETITE : 7605
GYPSUM : 7901
ALUNITE : 8213
LIMONITE : 8294
TETRAHEDRITE : 8649
NATIVE_GOLD : 10078
NATIVE_SILVER : 14019
LIGNITE : 15088
KIMBERLITE : 18151
GARNIERITE : 18194
CASSITERITE : 21960
ORTHOCLASE : 40746
MICROCLINE : 46128
TALC : 52315
MICA : 59475
OLIVINE : 81873
SLADE : 117239

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Excluding iron, everything is abundant.

[arkhometha]

.19 World. Same seed, 3x3 embark. The site is a little to the left of the original one but still gets two biomes and deep metals. Seems like my civ got the awesome idea of building their settlement above my original test site 4. 
The region, not only the site, seems like have a lot less metal than in .21.

Maximal regionoffset see
DEMANTOID : 158
HORN_SILVER : 192
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 224
SHELL OPAL : 482
RED BERYL : 728
SERPENTINE : 739
RUBICELLE : 1253
CHROMITE : 2403
NATIVE_SILVER : 2590
ORTHOCLASE : 18455
SLADE : 24541
OLIVINE : 31229

At least there some variety in the rock, so you can build a magma pump with safe rock, and floodgate, etc. in .21 I noticed some scarcity on different rocks in site.

[arkhometha]

.21. tests sites A
There are 42("In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and had been widely regarded as a bad move.") mountain tiles. Let's sample 20% of this, roughly 8.4 tiles.

A.1 New world gen, new seed. 20 minimum volcanism and 5 minimum volcanoes, strangely, didn't saw one. Small region. 2500 scarcity, 3x3, 2 biomes, shallow and deep metals, prevalently mountains.

GREEN TOURMALINE : 21
YELLOW ZIRCON : 106
MORION : 518
CASSITERITE : 628
CLEAR GARNET : 720
PINK JADE : 869
GREEN ZIRCON : 1104
RED ZIRCON : 1208
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 1261
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 3184
HEMATITE : 9025 - Iron Ore
SLADE : 26597

A.2 Same as above, different site, mountain biome, deep metals+flux stone only.

ONYX : 485
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 565
INDIGO TOURMALINE : 836
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 1161
PINK TOURMALINE : 2237
CLEAR GARNET : 2297
TETRAHEDRITE : 6913
SLADE : 52729

A.3 Same as above, different site, mountain biome, deep, shallow metals+flux stone.
MORION : 4
JASPER OPAL : 53
PYRITE : 211
PIPE OPAL : 343
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 384
RED TOURMALINE : 429
RUBICELLE : 516
SPINEL_PURPLE : 602
VIOLET SPESSARTINE : 718
CITRINE : 1199
OPAL_CRYSTAL : 1289
PINK GARNET : 2033
GALENA : 9625
NATIVE_SILVER : 11539
SLADE : 17984

A.4 Same as above, plus aquifer.

CITRINE : 112
RUBICELLE : 180
YELLOW GROSSULAR : 232
PINK TOURMALINE : 522
YELLOW SPESSARTINE : 924
HORNBLENDE : 1505
PRASE OPAL : 1678
BROWN ZIRCON : 1788
TETRAHEDRITE : 4852
MICA : 15077
LIMONITE : 15951 - Iron Ore
KAOLINITE : 41291
SLADE : 51814

A.5 Same as above, no aquifer no flux. Strange. Embark show an aquifer warning but DON'T list one aquifer. bug? Dug until the first cavern and no aquifer. Bug.

Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
AQUAMARINE : 6
JASPER OPAL : 12
PYROLUSITE : 30
MORION : 52
OPAL_PFIRE : 55
WAX OPAL : 82
ONYX OPAL : 89
CLEAR TOURMALINE : 99
PIPE OPAL : 225
RED GROSSULAR : 246
MILK QUARTZ : 277
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 282
CLEAR GARNET : 307
RUBICELLE : 338
RED TOURMALINE : 368
GOLDEN BERYL : 401
VIOLET SPESSARTINE : 453
JELLY OPAL : 455
LAVENDER JADE : 512
OPAL_CRYSTAL : 755
SPINEL_PURPLE : 757
CITRINE : 859
PYRITE : 1238
PINK GARNET : 1913
COAL_BITUMINOUS : 3151
GALENA : 6392
NATIVE_SILVER : 11476
SLADE : 13847


A.6 Same as above. no aquifer no flux.
Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
GREEN TOURMALINE : 26
CLEAR GARNET : 267
GREEN ZIRCON : 426
CASSITERITE : 624
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 741
PINK JADE : 870
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 2466
HEMATITE : 9052 - Iron Ore
SLADE : 80649


A.7 Deep metal + flux
Results don't show any metal. There definitively a bug with the embark screen that reports deep metal when there are none.
Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
PRASE : 245
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 379
RED PYROPE : 388
MOONSTONE : 1079
PINK TOURMALINE : 1176
TOPAZOLITE : 1297
PYRITE : 1629
GREEN TOURMALINE : 2561
SLADE : 15556
ORTHOCLASE : 45835

A.8 Shallow, deepmetals + flux.
GREEN TOURMALINE : 20
CLEAR GARNET : 606
CASSITERITE : 641
PINK JADE : 807
GREEN ZIRCON : 865
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 2961
HEMATITE : 8258 - Iron Ore
SLADE : 62465

A.9 Deep + Flux
Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
ONYX : 435
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 851
CLEAR GARNET : 1404
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 1555
PINK TOURMALINE : 2216
TETRAHEDRITE : 9061
SLADE : 73536


Results:
From 9 samples, 4 contained Iron ores, 3 tetra, 2 galena and silver(always appearing together), and 1 coal and one contained nothing, despite the embark saying there was metal. This gives you roughly a 44.4% chance of getting iron in a mountainous biome, varying from 8k of hematite to 15k of limonite, so a 11.5k average. 33.3% chance of getting tetra, and thus copper,  varying from 4k to 9k, 6.5k in average.
The test was made on all the mountains in the map, roughly a cluster of it. As said, consisted of 42 tiles.
The results shows that geological layers are not being respected, as hematite is from a sedimentary layer and limonite is from a igneous extrusive. They shouldn't appear in the same "biome".

As for iron, it seems you have more chance of getting it in a mountain, as I never saw one in a different biome. I could be wrong, that's just my opinion. This needs more testing.

Despite the failing in understanding the Mineral Occurrence Setting behavior, it seems we can take some conclusion from biome. Further research is needed, though.

[ahonek]

There definitively a bug with the embark screen that reports deep metal when there are none.
...
ORTHOCLASE : 45835

The bug is that some regular stones, including orthoclase, are counted as metals on the site finder. At least that's what I've read here on the forums.

[Flying Dice]

A setting of 250 has generated multiple worlds with both deep and shallow metals in every tile for me. I found a vein of hematite while digging my entrance tunnel. Of course, I was embarked on a 64 z-level tall mountain/cliff/volcano. On the other hand, there are multiple metal veins visible on every z level... TBH, it looks like much more than .18.