Topic: Mineral Occurrence Setting (Read 43712 times)

EveryZig · « **Reply #90 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:32:32 pm »

How did you make so some of the stone types are listed on embark like in the older versions? (This matters to me because the new version doesn't tell you if there is sand)

Urist Da Vinci · « **Reply #91 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:35:15 pm »

I ran prospector on several "play now" worlds with each of the five mineral settings, and analyzed the results.
I subtracted slade and adamantine from the data, as they are not generated by the same part of the program.

The data suggests that the following three things are all directly proportional to each other:

1/scarcity

the number of types of (gems + ores + minerals)

the sum of the amounts of all (gems + ores + minerals)

It also appears that how this "mineral pie" is cut up depends on the maximum number of types that you can have, and the layer stones that are present. It appears that there is a cap of around 100000 units of mineral per layer per biome, so stones that appear in multiple layers such as microline and orthoclase will have amounts like 600000 or 800000 on the map.

EveryZig · « **Reply #92 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:38:38 pm »

It would need to be 1/(scarcity + some constant), because in one of the tests he edited scarsity to be 0, and it was not broken or entirely mineral.

Lekegolo Khanid · « **Reply #93 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:40:32 pm »

@Everyzig
You can't unfortunately. Separating sand from soil would be a nice feature for the finder, perhaps you should head off to the suggestions forum?

@Eric Blank
750 has me set up with a good amount of copper and Tetrahedrite on a 2x2. It seems to be about the same as .18.

@Da Vinci
You live up to your name.

arkhometha · « **Reply #94 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:06:06 pm »

Quote from: EveryZig on March 07, 2011, 08:32:32 pm

How did you make so some of the stone types are listed on embark like in the older versions? (This matters to me because the new version doesn't tell you if there is sand)

I really didn't made anything out of the common. A screenshot of the .18 version.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just made a new default world. Nothing special, I thought this was default.

In the new version you should find sand besides arenite(aka sandstone), or in the common places, like rivers, shores and deserts, highly eroded places. You should find it in sedimentary layers, maybe.

Khym Chanur · « **Reply #95 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:12:29 pm »

Anyone have a guestimate as to the value to use to get 40d mineral abundance?

arkhometha · « **Reply #96 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:15:11 pm »

Quote from: Khym Chanur on March 07, 2011, 09:12:29 pm

Anyone have a guestimate as to the value to use to get 40d mineral abundance?

Can't help you in that, as I never really played 40d. =/

Lekegolo Khanid · « **Reply #97 on:** March 07, 2011, 10:07:44 pm »

Wait... what? How did you get it to display the stone types?

arkhometha · « **Reply #98 on:** March 07, 2011, 10:19:52 pm »

Quote from: Lekegolo Khanid on March 07, 2011, 10:07:44 pm

Wait... what? How did you get it to display the stone types?

That screenshot is from the .18 version. If I remember correctly, they always show stone types.

Babylon · « **Reply #99 on:** March 07, 2011, 10:20:54 pm »

Quote from: Girlinhat on March 07, 2011, 01:13:40 am

It's not so much a "bug" as a "quirk". You can see the obvious value in it, goblins who should be able to use bronze, will automatically have it, and humans who use steel will have their steel. It helps to ensure that everyone has their allocated metal types, but was never an issue until scarcity was invoked. Now, the auto-give is resulting in odd quirks like having bronze but not copper. It was a stop-gap measure that fixed a problem, but has now been exposed to create its own problems, albeit not very big problems. It was probably a very good idea back when it was put in, can't fault Toady on that, but that happens with updates, yeah?

And I'm not being a downer, I'm just saying that all these people like to throw around "dwarfy" to show that something else is "cheating". Like "It's un-dwarfy to use cage traps" pretty much states that using cages should be considered lame and you're not playing the game right. That's fine, but when people say "It's dwarfy to embark with no metal on the site and no metal brought with me. Damn I hate when a single ambush wipes out my base!" then... y'know, may wanna reconsider your values. Pride is fine, but pride doesn't protect you from a swinging -Copper Flail-

Another obvious value is allowing people from civs with no access to metals to buy a steel or bronze pick. Not being able to embark with a pick stinks.

white_darkness · « **Reply #100 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:41:27 pm »

I found the information in all the pages interesting but a touch confusing, so I thought I'd add my own collection from 9 pocket regions with default embarks, didn't move a hair

All these embarks are at the default location (shallow and deep metals listed) using seed 100.

Embark size 4x4. 2 biomes. I also made the assumption that shallow/deep metal(s) are defined to be anything that's in the Stone Mineral raw, irregardless of whether it's smeltable by default or not (ie. bloody Microcline).

Only oddity I had was on metal scarcity 3000 where I had a "special" world get genned and some unknown section of land collapsed into the caverns below. After going up through 100+ layers of rock without finding the surface, I just exited, deleted, and regenned. The 3000 metal scarcity still wasn't quite exactly like the others.

I will also freely admitting that classifying and totaling these things by raw location was "annoying" and my math may be wrong (particularly when I discovered I'd forgotten to move rutile from the general (stone gem) list to the stone mineral list. If I missed one still, someone please let me know.

I may graph/plot this later, to see if I can find some sort of curve along the points, but going this far gave me a headache.

My results...

Spoiler: Metal scarcity 100: (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 200 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 300 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 400 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 500 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 750 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 1000 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 1500 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Metal Scarcity: 3000 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Pocket Region World Generation Parameters (click to show/hide)

If someone really wants me to, I can zip up all 9 pocket regions and dump them on the file depot.

Urist Da Vinci · « **Reply #101 on:** March 08, 2011, 01:39:47 am »

Quote from: white_darkness on March 07, 2011, 11:41:27 pm

...

I may graph/plot this later, to see if I can find some sort of curve along the points, but going this far gave me a headache.

My results...

...

I plotted your data:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hmmm, it looks like a natural logarithm curve rather than a 1/x curve.

[fake edit]

ha ha, I just tried generating a pocket world with scarcity 100000, which should have nothing, and it actually had a lot of metals. From the metal amounts and types (159927 and 19), using my equation, as well as some binary math, it looks like Toady made a programming error. If you gen a world with scarcity 100000, it comes out the same as scarcity 1696. I think this is because the scarcity value is stored in a 16 bit binary, which has a maximum value of 65535. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

What have other people seen happen for large values of scarcity?

parlor_tricks · « **Reply #102 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:11:16 am »

Wow thats pretty cool. What/how did you use to import his data ?
I've not tried any of the higher scarcity values at the moment.

On a seperate note - has anyone taken a dfreveal look at their sites? On all the worlds I generated, the stones which are found in clusters/ovals (such as microline) are all placed according to a grid layout. Is this a new addition or was it always there?

white_darkness · « **Reply #103 on:** March 08, 2011, 04:36:55 am »

Quote from: Urist Da Vinci on March 08, 2011, 01:39:47 am

Quote from: white_darkness on March 07, 2011, 11:41:27 pm
...

I may graph/plot this later, to see if I can find some sort of curve along the points, but going this far gave me a headache.

My results...

...

I plotted your data:

(Image snipped for brevity)

Hmmm, it looks like a natural logarithm curve rather than a 1/x curve.

[fake edit]

ha ha, I just tried generating a pocket world with scarcity 100000, which should have nothing, and it actually had a lot of metals. From the metal amounts and types (159927 and 19), using my equation, as well as some binary math, it looks like Toady made a programming error. If you gen a world with scarcity 100000, it comes out the same as scarcity 1696. I think this is because the scarcity value is stored in a 16 bit binary, which has a maximum value of 65535. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

What have other people seen happen for large values of scarcity?

#1: Thank you for sparing my headache. I love you in a strictly platonic, saving my grey matter from having to do work kind of way.

#2: The 100k scarcity result puts me in mind of two things...

A: Star Control 2, specifically the Pkunk commentary on the Ilwrath race. That they were so good and pure they'd achieved the pinnacle of goodness, and then impossibly, they become even more pure and good, and wrapped around to become the ultimate evil.

B: A 16 bit wrap...hmm...guess that would give us something else to play with and since the portion after 65535 would be theoretically "negative" or undefined until 98304. I wonder if that would yield some very strange results.

Ultimately it sounds like something to play around with further, I may produce another 9 further down the chain, expanding the differential, or maybe I should keep the points closer...or I'll just keep spacing them out, until a point with an odd spike is found.

Though there is the "flaw" in that each one of these is a single snapshot, theoretically all at the same location. And that weird hiccup I had with the 3k marker. I almost wish I hadn't deleted that one, just to see how many Z levels I had now, but meh, I had a focus at the time, and the appearance of a hiccup was just an inconvenience.

arkhometha · « **Reply #104 on:** March 08, 2011, 05:05:46 am »

Quote from: white_darkness on March 08, 2011, 04:36:55 am

Quote from: Urist Da Vinci on March 08, 2011, 01:39:47 am
Quote from: white_darkness on March 07, 2011, 11:41:27 pm
...

I may graph/plot this later, to see if I can find some sort of curve along the points, but going this far gave me a headache.

My results...

...

I plotted your data:

(Image snipped for brevity)

Hmmm, it looks like a natural logarithm curve rather than a 1/x curve.

[fake edit]

ha ha, I just tried generating a pocket world with scarcity 100000, which should have nothing, and it actually had a lot of metals. From the metal amounts and types (159927 and 19), using my equation, as well as some binary math, it looks like Toady made a programming error. If you gen a world with scarcity 100000, it comes out the same as scarcity 1696. I think this is because the scarcity value is stored in a 16 bit binary, which has a maximum value of 65535. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

What have other people seen happen for large values of scarcity?

#1: Thank you for sparing my headache. I love you in a strictly platonic, saving my grey matter from having to do work kind of way.

#2: The 100k scarcity result puts me in mind of two things...

A: Star Control 2, specifically the Pkunk commentary on the Ilwrath race. That they were so good and pure they'd achieved the pinnacle of goodness, and then impossibly, they become even more pure and good, and wrapped around to become the ultimate evil.

B: A 16 bit wrap...hmm...guess that would give us something else to play with and since the portion after 65535 would be theoretically "negative" or undefined until 98304. I wonder if that would yield some very strange results.

Ultimately it sounds like something to play around with further, I may produce another 9 further down the chain, expanding the differential, or maybe I should keep the points closer...or I'll just keep spacing them out, until a point with an odd spike is found.

Though there is the "flaw" in that each one of these is a single snapshot, theoretically all at the same location. And that weird hiccup I had with the 3k marker. I almost wish I hadn't deleted that one, just to see how many Z levels I had now, but meh, I had a focus at the time, and the appearance of a hiccup was just an inconvenience.

Attention interloper - heed this recorded message! This drone vessel speaks with the voice and the authority of the Ur-Quan. You are trespassing within Ur-Quan space.

Pkunk wasn't the strange looking birds? and Ilwrath wasn't that fucking spiders who became invisible and kicked your butt in the beginning of the game?

This drone now leaves to inform the Ur-Quan of your transgressions. You are commanded to remain here and await the arrival of the Ur-Quan. Disobedience... Will be punished.

man, one of the best(if note THE one) games I played, ever. And the Ur-Quan voice, and the overall voice acting was awesome.

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Author Topic: Mineral Occurrence Setting (Read 43712 times)

EveryZig

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Urist Da Vinci

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

EveryZig

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Lekegolo Khanid

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

arkhometha

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Khym Chanur

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

arkhometha

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Lekegolo Khanid

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

arkhometha

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Babylon

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

white_darkness

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

Urist Da Vinci

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

parlor_tricks

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

white_darkness

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting

arkhometha

Re: Mineral Occurrence Setting