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Author Topic: Aquifers: A Guide on How to Dig Through an Aquifer of Indefinite Levels  (Read 53302 times)

QuantumMenace

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 07:03:03 pm »

Here's something I concocted that's compact and only requires one dwarf-powered pump. It drains the aquifer back into itself, and doesn't get it all over the surface:

2x4 double-slit method

Dig a 2x2 staircase until you reach damp stone, don't dig it into the aquifer soil! Channel out 2 slits to either side. Remove 2 up staircases between the slits, floor over them and build the pump there:



Man the pump. It will drain one slit into the other. Start digging out and walling off the quadrant being drained. Don't dig them all out at once; the more room there is for the water to push your construction worker around, the longer it will take to finish the wall. The corner towards the center needs a wall, the outer corner does not.



Dismantle the pump and re-install it facing the other direction. Repeat the mirror image of the above step.



Dismantle the pump and its flooring, replacing them with constructed staircases. Remove the other staircases, floor over and install the pump.



Start walling off the third quadrant, but leave the block of aquifer near the center. This is important! The block will act as a sink for the water pumped out of the last quadrant. Add a wall in the slit, adjacent to where the water is being drawn out.



Almost done! Dismantle the pump and re-install it facing the other direction. The pump may spread the water a bit on its level, but it isn't dangerous. (2012 Update: knocking a dwarf down a z-level can be dangerous now. Building a single wall directly on top of the wall built in the slit should stop the splashing.) Wall off the last quadrant. With this slit dry, you can remove the center wall diagonal to the aquifer block. The aquifer will not add water through this diagonal, but your miner can come in and destroy the block. Since we added another wall to the other slit, there should only be a total of 7-9 units of water in the opened area, which will evaporate.

Don't remove all the internal walls until you have stair access or dwarves might get stuck there, unable to use the ramps. Dig down stairs to reveal the layer below, then build up/down stairs on top of them for access. Building the stairs will remove any 1/1 water on the tile, and render the layer below dry if it is not an aquifer.



You can repeat this as many times as necessary to get past a multi-layer aquifer.

Edit: I forgot if water will go in to an aquifer on a diagonal. If it does, it isn't necessary to leave the block there.
Edit 2: No, it won't. You either need the block, or a channel into an aquifer layer below in its place (or better yet in one of the slit tiles after it's walled off).
Edit 3: A faster way to get to the bottom aquifer level

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit 4: Check out Panando's accelerated version on page 5.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 02:56:43 pm by QuantumMenace »
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2011, 08:06:59 pm »

I think that this method you have show here actually wins the prize.  Vastly simpler than anything I've proposed.

I developed a similar method based on the 4x4 shaft with 4 pumps at each corner, which then evolved into the powered design that I've just explained.  I pumped water from one corner down into another one in a similar fashion, but wasn't able to get the final piece of it to work in a soil-aquifer, since I had trouble with eliminating the last "drain block".

I will now test out this simple compact method you've shown here and post my experiences.  You may yet be awarded the "Conqueror of the Aquifer" prize.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2011, 08:16:17 pm »

Lemurson! It works!!!

I started a new fortress with nothing but picks, piles and piles of stone and wood, and some food and drink.
After about an hour I finally penetrated through a 5-level aquifer using your method(at 500fps and many, many cancellations, mind you).
Ah, the joy I feel at having finally overcome those damn aquifers! :D
Of course, my dwarves immediately died from starvation and neglect right after, but they were a sacrifice for all things hole-y! (get it? :D)

To anyone who reads this topic, when using Lemurson's method, some points need to be kept in mind:
- Bring stone from embark or trade for it from merchants; stone is vital for constructing gear assemblies to power your pumps using this method.
- Be patient! You will see many, many cancellations if constructing walls in a soil aquifer. Typically, depending on luck, you will need to face from 5 to 20 cancellations per wall until construction is complete. Do not worry, however! Progress is moving on; in your "q" view you will see construction creep on from "awaiting construction" to "construction initialized" to "partially complete" to "mostly complete" to, finally, complete!

This needs to be posted on the Wiki! Now!  :P


Edit: QuantumMenace! Woah! New method! After reading on it, I'm pretty convinced that this may be the easiest method for digging a 2x2 shaft. I shall try this immediately! Well, tomorrow.  :D

Of course, thanks to both Hans Lemurson and QuantumMenace for posting such well-illustrated and descriptive guides. Truly ingenious material!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 08:45:36 pm by ThirdSpartacus »
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Hans Lemurson

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I'm glad you've had success with the method I proposed.  I'm currently testing QuantumMenace's "Double-Slit" method and also seeing if the "replace pumps with walls" technique from earlier in the thread is viable, just to be thorough.

I should also probably make an account for the wiki so that I can add the relevant information from this thread to it, or at least to my user-page there like I've seen some other people do.  Or something.  But in the meantime, more watery science ensues.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

QuantumMenace

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A 4-hole method like yours might work like this:



The drain block is at top left. You should be able to channel out the rest of the aquifer soil while draining its water into the block with a pump moving water from right to left at the top, but I accidentally channeled out the drain block first.  :P

I like the symmetry of the 4x4 hole more, and that you don't have to remove the stairs (except for channeling), but it might take slightly longer to finish because of the number of corners where the construction site seems more liable to be suspended.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 09:50:59 pm by QuantumMenace »
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Zeranamu

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Kudos Hans, Quantum. You guys just made me enable aquifers again! :D
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ThirdSpartacus

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I should also probably make an account for the wiki so that I can add the relevant information from this thread to it, or at least to my user-page there like I've seen some other people do.  Or something.  But in the meantime, more watery science ensues.

Yeah I've been trying post the methods on the Wiki but am utterly confused as to how to do so.
So I'll just leave it to others.
But yes, these should be on the Wiki. That's where I get most of my DF needs and, sadly, there was no mention of 2-layers+ aquifer methods. Q_Q

RiderofDark

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Now I know how to pierce that 10 Z-level aquifer I once saw.  :o Nice! :D
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QuantumMenace

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Note that since the double-slit uses the aquifer itself to drain the water, running into a chunk of non-aquifer rock in an aquifer layer can interfere with it.

I think you'll need at least one of the 4 center tiles to be aquifer for a drain block. For the opposite slit you may need to dig outward for an aquifer to use as a drain for the water from the drain block slit, then wall that off after the drain block slit is walled off.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 01:02:50 am by QuantumMenace »
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ThirdSpartacus

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Note that since the double-slit uses the aquifer itself to drain the water, running into a chunk of non-aquifer rock in an aquifer layer can interfere with it.

I think you'll need at least one of the 4 center tiles to be aquifer for a drain block. For the opposite slit you may need to dig outward for an aquifer to use as a drain for the water from the drain block slit, then wall that off after the drain block slit is walled off.

Running into non-aquifer rock shouldn't be a problem, as your method effectively drains the water into the layer from which that water originated, instead of into the layer below. If anything, running into hard rock is good, as the need to construct walls will not exist. To drain the aquifer layer below a hard-rock node, simply construct as usual as if that hard-rock deposit was the surface layer.

QuantumMenace

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I mean when you're trying to wall off a level containing some aquifer and some non-aquifer stone. There may be no place to put the water drained out of one slit. Example:

Code: [Select]
AANNNN
A^NN^N
A^NN^N
NNNNNN

A=aquifer
N=non-aquifer
^=slit ramp

In this example, the left slit will fill with water, but if you pump it into the right slit it won't have an aquifer to drain into and overflow, pushing your pump operator away. In this case, dig down through one tile of the right slit. If it's an aquifer you have a drain. If there is not an aquifer below you can drain it into the caverns or map-edge fortifications.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 05:14:07 pm by QuantumMenace »
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ThirdSpartacus

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Oh, I see now. :D
Good idea! :D

kzwix

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011, 10:10:06 pm »

I like both methods, but I prefer Lemurson's. I mean, the first method is *very* dwarfy, with lots of power usage, lots of engineering, lots of pumps, it's beautiful. Also, you do not have to deconstruct the pumps (although you can do so when it's done)

Quantum Menace's method is nice in that it needs but one pump, but there are several things that I dislike with it. First, pumping back to the aquifer is easy, but I view it somewhat like an exploit. Also, you have to build then remove the pump several times. Also, you must have constructed stairs, instead of "dug in the mass" ones. While this ain't a big issue, I like having as little "construction" as possible, as I read that it's less resilient to attack than "dug" tiles, and because building destroyers could get to them, to. And, lastly, the fact that inclusions could hamper the method (needing you to drain to the edge or to another aquifer level, below) is another down.



Also, I guess we could improve on Lemurson's design. I mean, he wrote that the classical pump stack wouldn't work. I wonder why. Is it because digging more holes make the water flow too fast from below, to a point where it can't be pumped fast enough ?

Suppose the following steps (left square is the upper level, right one is the bottom level):
Code: [Select]
1 : Dig 8 channels, like this
######          ######
#_#__#          #^#^^#
#_XX#           #^####
##XX_#          ####^#
#__#_#          #^^#^#
######          ######

2 : Place your pumps, with "dangling bits" (the blocks, obviously, dangling, as the platforms must be on a floor). p is where the pump operator stands, P is the unpassable tile of the pump.
######          ######
#_pP_#          #^#^^#
#PXXp#          #^####
#pXXP#          ####^#
#_Pp_#          #^^#^#
######          ######

3 : Wall around, just like Lemurson explained :
######          #WWWW#
#_pP_#          W....W
#PXXp#          W.XX.W
#pXXP#          W.XX.W
#_Pp_#          W....W
######          #WWWW#

4 : Dig the next level :
######          #WWWW#
#_pP_#          W__._W
#PXXp#          W.XX_W
#pXXP#          W_XX.W
#_Pp_#          W_.__W
######          #WWWW#

5 : Place the pumps, in opposite directions from the ones above them :
######          #WWWW#
#_pP_#          W_Pp_W
#PXXp#          WpXXPW
#pXXP#          WPXXpW
#_Pp_#          W_pP_W
######          #WWWW#

If I understood correctly how pump works, they should be able to transmit their power to the ones under them (or, rather, the ones newly constructed under should be able to draw from the neighboring pumps).
If this design works, this would remove the need for stone, as gear assemblies wouldn't be necessary anymore. Also, it would cut energy consumption by 20%, because each floor would require 40 instead of 50.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 10:12:36 pm by kzwix »
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Hans Lemurson

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That's a good improvement, I hadn't thought of digging out the floor for the internally connected pump-stack design BEFORE the pump is placed down.  My thought was "Pumps with only 1 tile of support are in a 'hanging' state, where do they get their support from?"  The answer: "They are hanging from the pump above them!".  The challenge though remains as to where the TOP pump on each side gets its support from, but that can be dealt with fairly easily by a horizontal axle.

I have 2 criticisms of your refinement though:
-The extended digging-pattern may increase the difficulty of fully draining the wall-construction sites and make the walls take longer to build with more cancellations.  I don't know whether this will actually cause any problems, but it is a concern in my mind.
-Just about any scheme for powering the 4 pump-stacks is going to require a fair amount of mechanisms, so from a materials cost standpoint, the use of an additional 2 mechanisms shouldn't cause too great a problem.

Your method will save on the usage of imported stone for mechanisms and reduce the number of water-wheels that will need to be used along with the cost of their power-transfer machinery and so lower the overall materials cost of the project, but I don't feel that these benefits are worth the potential risks of slower wall-construction and the collapse of improperly constructed pump-stacks.

That said, I have not actually tested this method and so do not know if my fears have any merit, nor do I have any experience to tell me how valuable the reduced construction-cost might be.

On a different note, I think I should address the question of "How do I power my pump-tower?".  I'm currently experimenting on easy ways to build water-reactors atop an aquifer, making use of its infinite source and drain of water.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:48:08 pm by Hans Lemurson »
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

Another

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I would like to nitpick that mechanisms can be forged from weapon-grade metals now, so an extreme case of no-trade, no stone from embark fortress with above ground vegetation, a bar/block of fire-safe material, an anvil and access to goblinite can in theory eventually penetrate it's aquifer.
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