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Author Topic: Aquifers: A Guide on How to Dig Through an Aquifer of Indefinite Levels  (Read 49948 times)

ThirdSpartacus

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QuantumMenace and HansLemurson have each posted their own methods for trudging through any aquifer depth without losing shaft size. Look for these methods in their posts and don't forget to thank them! Happy Drilling!

Quote
Hehe, so my past 3 fortresses have each had soil-layer aquifers that extend more than 2 layers. Initially I had success clearing the first few layers out using the pump method with waterwheel/wind power but soon I found myself working with less and less space as I went down each level. If you visualize an inverted pyramid, you pretty much have the layout of my aquifer piercing operations. The problem is that with each layer descended into, I have to build wall constructs to stopper the aquifer walls, pretty much decreasing my working square space for clearing the next aquifer layer.

On my first layer I start with a 10x10 square typically and lose about 2-3 squares in the next layer due to wall-construct and pump space. I'm looking to carve out atleast a 2x2 staircase area by the time I reach the aquifer bottom but typically my aquifers are, unfortunately, more than 3 layers.

What might be a good tactic for maintaining constant square size with each successive layer? :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 06:25:05 pm by ThirdSpartacus »
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 02:18:07 am »

I have a method where I bore a 4x4 shaft through aquifers of any kind.  It required considerable mechanical power and 4 pumps (and 2 mechanisms) per level, but onc you get it going is infallible.

Code: [Select]
This pattern can be repeated for each level in your drilling operation to drain water from aquifers so that your workers can work.
 (Either smoothing stone walls or laboriously constructing their own in semi-flooded cancel-spamming conditions) 
Each pump's output is sucked up by the pump on the level above it forming a "bucket brigade" of water transported from flooded areas to the surface where the water is disposed of.
2 stacks of gear-assemblies provide power to the pumps since it is completely impossible to construct the standard "self-connected pumpstack".

 ######
##WWWW##  <-- "W" is the walls you construct in soil-layers, and "#" is soil. Aquifers don't leak diagonally, so the corners aren't necessary.
#W_pP*W#  <-- "_pP*" represents a pump which pumps from west from a "_" channeled hole and has a "*" gear-assembly powering it.
#WPXXpW#  <-- A pump here pumps from the north, and receives power from the same gear-assembly.           
#WpXXPW#  <-- 2x2 up/down staircase at core
#W*Pp_W#
##WWWW##  <-- This pump pumps from the east and is powered by the gear-assembly that powers its "pump from South" brother to its left.
 ###### 

For drainage, I construct the top-level like so:

.......|....  <-- Mechanical power brought in here ("|" is a N/S axle, and "." is open floor)
###....|.### 
#_Pp===*pP_#  <-- Pumps water from NE corner and transfers power below via the gear assembly.  Gears do not block fluids.
#_#|.XX.|#_#  <-- Axles transfer power to other pumps. "|" for n/s axles, and "=" for e/w axles.  Axles don't block fluids either.
#_#|.XX.|#_#
#_Pp*.._pP_#  <-- Leftmost pump holds a Gear Assembly for power transfer below, while rightmost pumps from a bare pit.
###......###  <-- Retaining wall for water being pumped back into aquifer to avoid floods.  "_" is a channeled-out tile, "#" is wall.
............

That's the "Lemurson Plan" for aquifer-penetration.  I suspect it may need some clarification, so feel free to ask questions about it.  I may have overlooked some important details.

Edit:
1st clarification: This method is NOT intended as a replacement for the construction of water-tight walls to seal up the hole you've made in the aquifer.  This is a way of draining the layer below you so that you CAN construct the walls.  The innovation here is that this keeps a constant profile, rather than a constantly shrinking hole that might run out too soon.
2nd clarification: I have modified the diagram to show the walls that you must construct in soil layers.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 03:30:52 pm by Hans Lemurson »
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

kzwix

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 06:24:17 am »

So you're constantly pumping, right ? No "walling" operation, only pumping whatever water comes out, permanently ?

This prompts several questions :
- Doesn't it kill framrate a bit ?
- Ain't it dangerous ? (if power runs out, then you get insta-flooded, right ?)
- Do you think digging extra space and building walls there would be possible, or would it be cancelled permanently by the water spawning from the aquifer ?
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Cotes

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 07:01:02 am »

So you're constantly pumping, right ? No "walling" operation, only pumping whatever water comes out, permanently ?

This prompts several questions :
- Doesn't it kill framrate a bit ?
Not completely and not permanently. Once you're done you stop pumping.

Quote
- Ain't it dangerous ? (if power runs out, then you get insta-flooded, right ?)
This does not happen with windmills, afaik. A waterwheel could crap out on you if not built smartly, and a pump operator might run-off eventually due to various reasons (they do work till they are next to dead if no outside factor causes them to unman the pump though).
 
Quote
- Do you think digging extra space and building walls there would be possible, or would it be cancelled permanently by the water spawning from the aquifer ?
Yes and no. A tile that gets frequently but not permanently submerged can still be built on - It's just kind of pain in the ass since the dwarves constantly suspend the work, so you need to constantly restart the construction until it has been built with bug-bites.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 02:32:41 pm by Cotes »
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Well if you remove the [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] tag from dwarves I think they have like 2-4 children each time they give birth. And if you get enough mothers up on the pillars you can probably get a good waterfall going.
Ashes are technically fire-safe.

Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 02:28:05 pm »

So you're constantly pumping, right ? No "walling" operation, only pumping whatever water comes out, permanently ?
I apologize for the confusion.  This setup is to provide drainage FOR your walling operation.  The waterproof casement is still essential to aquifer-penetration, but this design provides vertical drainage within a constant profile.  No problems of "rapidly shrinking dig sites".
Quote
This prompts several questions :
- Doesn't it kill framrate a bit ?
- Ain't it dangerous ? (if power runs out, then you get insta-flooded, right ?)
- Do you think digging extra space and building walls there would be possible, or would it be cancelled permanently by the water spawning from the aquifer ?
Constructing walls in soil-layers to stop the leakage remains the most difficult and tedious portion of this digging process, since the construction sites are next to the tile being drained, rather than being drained themselves and so are constantly fluctuating between 1/7 and 2/7 water.  It is necessary to continually un-suspend the wall-construction and you have to have half a dozen dwarves dedicated to masonry (or carpentry if it's walls of wood).

Once you've successfully built the casement walls for the level you're on (fortunately you don't have to build in the corners since aquifers don't leak diagonally), you then channel-out the corner-tiles to open them up to drainage, add in the 4 pumps and 2 gear-assemblies and start the machinery up again (if you ever turned it off).  Now you start working on the level below you and the cycle continues until you hit non-leaky rock.

Is this more clear?
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 02:55:31 pm »


So you're constantly pumping, right ? No "walling" operation, only pumping whatever water comes out, permanently ?
I apologize for the confusion.  This setup is to provide drainage FOR your walling operation.  The waterproof casement is still essential to aquifer-penetration, but this design provides vertical drainage within a constant profile.  No problems of "rapidly shrinking dig sites".

I think I get the general idea of your waterpump tower but I do have a bit of confusion as to how the walls might be constructed in a soil aquifer.
In your second diagram:
Quote
######
#_pP*#  <--Pump pumps from west and has a gear-assembly powering it and its "pump from North" brother to its right
#PXXp#  <--2x2 up/down staircase at core
#pXXP#
#*Pp_#  <--This pump pumps from the east and is powered by the gear-assembly that powers its "pump from South" brother to its left.
###### 
............

I can't see how to build the walls in order to maintain an overall 4x4 shaft. The pumps block the walls for digging and even if accessible the digged out space would be too flooded to construct over.

Maybe the best way to go is use the inverted pyramid method with a huge initial piercing layer and then hope the space lasts enough for the bottom. Idk.

Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 03:20:21 pm »

I can't see how to build the walls in order to maintain an overall 4x4 shaft. The pumps block the walls for digging and even if accessible the digged out space would be too flooded to construct over.

You're right, that was poorly explained.  Let's try this marginally better explanation where the walls which must be constructed are represented by the letter "W":
Code: [Select]
######
##WWWW##
#W_pP*W#  <--Pump pumps from west and has a gear-assembly powering it and its "pump from North" brother to its right
#WPXXpW#  <--2x2 up/down staircase at core
#WpXXPW#  <--"W" is the walls you construct in soil-layers, and "#" is soil.
#W*Pp_W#
##WWWW##  <--This pump pumps from the east and is powered by the gear-assembly that powers its "pump from South" brother to its left.
 ###### 
I'll update my original diagram with this slightly less confusing version.  There's still the matter though of "How the hell do I BUILD those damn walls in the first place?" though.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 04:07:58 pm »

There's still the matter though of "How the hell do I BUILD those damn walls in the first place?" though.

Aha! So while I was in the shower, I thought up this:
Use your method to reach all the way to the rock layer, and then the level beneath that(to drain out the water that spills into the first encountered rock layer).
Then, regress back up by removing the bottom layer's pumps and replacing those with walls and repeat.
Assuming a willingness to deal with annoying construction cancellations, the area exposed by removing the pumps will be drained by the top layer's pumps and will so be able to be walled in, leaving a 2x2 staircase surrounded by walls.
Repeating this for each layer going up, the shaft should be walled off.
Yay!

Of course, this needs testing, but this is a recap what I've decided on:
1) Follow your method to penetrate all the way to the bottom, effectively creating a sorta pump-stack shaft without walls.
2) Once at bottom, remove bottommost pumps and replace with walls.
3) Repeat until shaft is completely walled.

Thanks alot, Lemurson! :D

Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 04:46:08 pm »

Hmm....interesting idea!  I hadn't thought about deconstructing the pumps from the bottom-up and replacing them with walls.  I'll have to see if there really is enough drainage-ability to do that.  I've never tried using my pump-tower in lieu of walls, but I think there's a chance it could work.

One problem though is that when you deconstruct the bottom-most pumps, you will lose your ability to drain the lower areas as water leaks down from up above.  If you cover the staircase with floor-hatches though, that should largely prevent downward leakage, but you'll also need to seal the corners as you go.

Another problem, and one which will be much more serious is the question of how you will seal up the corners of the level that you're currently ON.  Your drainage from above is coming from the corners of the shaft, but if you wall-off everything else and leave the corners 'til last, they will be inaccessable to construction projects.  Can floodgates be installed diagonally?  That might be the solution.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 04:50:56 pm »

Another problem, and one which will be much more serious is the question of how you will seal up the corners of the level that you're currently ON.  Your drainage from above is coming from the corners of the shaft, but if you wall-off everything else and leave the corners 'til last, they will be inaccessable to construction projects.  Can floodgates be installed diagonally?  That might be the solution.

:o
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 03:57:49 pm by ThirdSpartacus »
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 04:54:31 pm »

Another possible solution might be making the "walls" of your shaft raising-bridges, but that could take a while, and I think that just a single 2/7 water tile could halt the construction of the whole thing.  I'll investigate floodgates though.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2011, 05:02:45 pm »

######
##WWWW##
#W_pP*W#  <--Pump pumps from west and has a gear-assembly powering it and its "pump from North" brother to its right
#WPXXpW#  <--2x2 up/down staircase at core
#WpXXPW#  <--"W" is the walls you construct in soil-layers, and "#" is soil.
#W*Pp_W#
##WWWW##  <--This pump pumps from the east and is powered by the gear-assembly that powers its "pump from South" brother to its left.
 ###### 

I tried the placement of those walls on my new fortress (after fighting off armies of local boars), and it seems that for the aquifer layer below, the four pumps are insufficient for draining out the wall area. The previous layout you had before, without the walls, worked better, I believe. The 4x4 grid could be drained just fine but with the added walls area at each side, there's just not enough pumpage.

Edit: And floodgates can't be diagonally placed. :(
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 05:05:43 pm by ThirdSpartacus »
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2011, 06:01:42 pm »

The drainage that can be provided by the 4 pumps is of the "no drowning" kind.  Also, you have to build the walls piece-by-piece to make sure the pumps don't get overwhelmed.  By "overwhelmed" I mean no longer capable of reliable creating 1/7 water at construction-sites.

Here's my tutorial for: How to build them damned walls!
Code: [Select]
The fundamental principle here is only dig-out the soil where you are going to build a wall immediately.

----Step 1-----
(only revealed soil will get marked with a "#")
 ######
 #C##C#   <-- "C" is the "construction sites" where you should dig out the soil and lay down some walls to be built.
 #/##\#    <-- "/" and "\" represent the upward ramps leading the the level above where the pumps are.
 ###### 
 ######   <-- Don't dig the staircases yet. They invite additonal water-flow.
 #/##\#
 #C##C#
 ######
Code: [Select]
-----Step 2------
 ######
##W##W##  <-- The completed walls from Step 1
#C/##\C#   <-- New construction sites.
########
########
#C/##\C#
##W##W##
 ######
Code: [Select]
----Step 3----
Now that those corner-areas have walls, that's half the work done.  There's enough barrier in place to put the stairs in.
 ######
##W##W## 
#W/##\W#  <-- Don't dig the soil in the middle here YET, otherwise you'll end up with non-functional ramps.
#C.XX.C#
#C.XX.C#  <-- Once these stairs are dug out though, you can clear the last of the "in the way" soil, but I'll leave that for the next step
#W/##\W#
##W##W##
 ######
Code: [Select]
----Step 4----
 ######
##WCCW##  <-- New construction sites.
#W\../W#  <--Ramps are no longer usable.  We use the central stairs now.  You DID make them, right?
#C.XX.C# 
#C.XX.C#  <--These construction sites probably aren't finished yet, since the Stairs are dug fairly quickly.
#W\../W#
##WCCW##
 ######
Code: [Select]
----Step 5----
 ######
##WWWW## 
#W_.._W#  <-- Once the walls are completed, channel-out the corners to gain access to the level below.
#W.XX.W# 
#W.XX.W# 
#W_.._W#
##WWWW##
 ######
Code: [Select]
----Step 6----
 ######
##WWWW## 
#W_pP*W#  <-- Construct the Pumps and place the Gear-Assemblies for power transfer.
#WPXXpW# 
#WpXXPW# 
#W*Pp_W#  <-- Here too.
##WWWW##
 ######

Now go down a level and start at Step 1 and have fun with more "Urist McMason cancels build wall"
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

ThirdSpartacus

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2011, 06:12:00 pm »

Bravo! Bravo!
I will try this method right away!

You are a brilliant planner! :D
I hope this gets posted on the Wiki if it works. :)

Hans Lemurson

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Re: Multi-Layer Soil Aquifer, Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2011, 06:30:46 pm »

Another useful thing I found:
-Even though Floodgates can't be placed diagonally...Doors CAN.  Doors can be used in the corners of the "pump replacement" walling technique.  Assuming you can bore the shaft without walls in the first place...I will test this.
Logged
Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."
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