The data from the V3 raws has been encorporated into Dwarf Fortress 0.34.08
. Thanks, everyone!
News from the Devlog:
05/11/2012 Toady One We finally nabbed the bug that was intermittently hanging the game. I've incorporated some fan-collected material numbers that came out of an effort spearheaded by Uristocrat.
I believe that Toady is incorporating the data in the V3 raws, in case we find more data and publish an updated version someday.
I suggest we add solid density information for all the various kinds of rocks. That way, they won't all be exactly the same when used in rockfall traps and catapults. Also, it changes their in-game weight (and thereby the speed at which they're hauled) and a few other things. Here's the data. The data is also in RAW file form. People are encouraged to use my mod and the data freely.Latest RAWS - Currently at V3, which corrects a couple of minor errors in the V2 raws based on better research.See also: NW_Kohaku's Geology ThreadNEWEST:
My prior source on electrum looks a bit sketchy in hindsight. Dr. Luuvalo
, who knows a lot about metals, taught me a lot. We believe that a weighted average of gold + silver's density is likely to produce a more accurate density. This appears to be born out by this Google books result
, which lists a range of 13000-16000. Because DF models electrum as 50% silver + 50% gold in its recipe (the actual proportions vary quite a bit, per wikipedia's article on electrum
and may even include copper), I think the best density value for DF's electrum is (19320 (gold) + 10490 (silver)) / 2 = 14905.NEW:
The guesstimate of 300 kg/m^3 for Saguaro density in the V2 raws was probably wrong. I have a 6g piece of Saguaro wood with a volume of approximately 14 cm^3, which indicates that the density of Saguaro wood is approximately 430 kg/m^3. This number appears very reasonable when compared to all the other densities I have researched. I have more ~1 ft pieces of Saguaro rib wood than I know what to do with right now and I'm more than willing to ship them to people willing to do further research on the matter, or those who wish to duplicate my experiments.
I'll issue a V3 raw with this corrected eventually, but I will probably wait to see if more data can be obtained first.
BishopX was kind enough to point me to MatWeb
. They seem to have a lot of information, but most of it is for modern alloys and whatnot. Still, I'm including it here in case we can find something useful there.
If you have any questions about my sources, please ask. I tried to link up most of them, and even more are in the RAWs proper, but a lot of that gem data was either from CSG Network
, occasionally supplemented by Wolfram Alpha, as I recall.
Wood data (densities & colors) is now in those V2 raws, but I haven't put anything into this thread yet. Most of it was taken from the Forest Products Laboratory
, a division of the US Forest Service (and their website is back up now). Another good source of wood data is this site
Here are the V2 RAWs
. You can still get the V1 RAWs
if you want them for some reason. People who understand mechanical properties like impact fracture are encouraged to comment here
. I have a lot of new structural data for wood and a lot of questions about how to help DF make use of it.NEW!
We now have a source of data for wood
too. Yes, wood. How did I find that? Looking up the Sandbox tree (the one with explosive fruit...). See for yourself
just how much detail we can get: density, bending strength, modulus of elasticity, maximum crushing strength, ... oh yeah. Fun with training weapons maybe? I wonder.... There are LOTS of different woods in there to look up, too. We should be able to put in realistic values for all kinds of woods, so that all the woods in the game aren't nearly identical.
OTHER DATA: Anyone who can find other sources of material data for me to look at is encouraged to post them in this thread
.When looking up densities, I suggest that you search for "specific gravity" instead of density. You get much better results. The value DF uses is specific gravity * 1000, so it's pretty easy to convert (e.g. a S.G. of 2.6 == 2600 in DF).
I found a MUCH better source on soil density
. I plan to update my raws with this data soon. Yes, that website sounds weird. I didn't name it. It gives you a lovely calculator for soil density, though. Contrary to how I deal with rocks, it seems that "bulk density" (not specific gravity) is a more reasonable measure. Otherwise, we ignore the fact that the soils have a lot of air. I think that undersea soils, due to compaction from the water, are a bit denser, though.
Wolfram Alpha is one good source of density information, but it likes to give me g/cm3
instead of kg/m3
. All I have to do is multiply that by 1000 to convert it. You can also take the specific gravity and multiply that by 1000 (and specific gravity is easier to search for).
NOTE: For comparison, all non-ore rocks appear to be at the current default density of 2670 kg/m3
.Stone Density Data:
|Mineral||Solid Density (kg/m3)||Sources / Notes|
|Alabaster||2300||Wolfram Alpha (same as Gypsum)|
|Bituminous coal||1350||Wolfram Alpha|
|Brimstone||2070||No clue what "monoclinic sulfur" is so used the other density from Wolfram Alpha|
|Chromite||4795||Wolfram Alpha (Search for the mineral not the ion)|
|Cinnabar||8100||Wolfram Alpha (Search for the mineral, not the word)|
|Claystone||2700||Mentioned in The later Proterozoic Torridonian rocks of Scotland: their sedimentology By A. D. Stewart; a Google books result.|
|Conglomerate||2000||Answerbag says it's 1700-2300, used the middle of the range given.|
|Dacite||2400||Gerlach lists dacite density as 2.4*1012 kg/km3, which I let Google convert for me.|
|Graphite||2250||Wolfram Alpha (Search for the material)|
|Gypsum||2300||Wolfram Alpha (Lists data for Alabaster; used that.)|
|Hornblende||3235||Wolfram Alpha (Search for it as a mineral)|
|Jet||1320||Calculated based on the specific gravity listed on Wikipedia. Middle of the range of 1300-1340 was chosen.|
|Kimberlite||2540||Geophysical Characteristics of Canadian Kimberlites (Chose the median value from Table 1)|
|Limonite||3500||Mindat. Gives a range of 2700-4300, took the middle of the range|
|Mica||2883||Simetric. Used the "solid" value.|
|Mudstone||2250||Wolfram Alpha says it's the same as shale|
|Obsidian||2650||Cochise College gives the specific gravity as 2.6-2.7, so I converted and averaged that. Real values should be variable, depending on trapped gasses.|
|Orthoclase||2560||Mindat & Wolfram Alpha|
|Petrified wood||2200||HPWT, chose the middle of the 1900-2500 range.|
|Phyllite||2800||Geophysical Field Pattern in The West Bohemian Geodynamic Active Area (PDF), mentions "dense Ordovician phyllites."|
|Pitchblende||7600||The Free Dictionary, gives a range of 6000-9200, depending on the UO2:UO3 ratio. Middle of range was chosen.|
|Puddingstone||2000||No source found. It's a type of conglomerate, so I used that value.|
|Rhyolite||2600||University of Colorado GEO 1010 gives a range of 2500-2700, chose center.|
|Rock salt||2170||Wolfram Alpha (Search for it as a mineral)|
|Rutile||4250||Wolfram Alpha (Search for it as a mineral)|
|Saltpeter||2105||Wolfram Alpha (Search for it as a mineral)|
|Satinspar||2300||Wikipedia; same as Selenite|
|Selenite||2300||Wikipedia; same as Satinspar|
|Shale||2250||Same as mudstone. Source Wolfram Alpha|
|Siltstone||2500||Assumed it was a slightly denser sandstone. If you want to download a 16MB PDF of some book to hunt for a better value, try The Petrology of Sedimentary Rocks|
NOTES: Some of these were already in the raws (e.g. cobaltite). But my raws differentiate lignite from bituminous coal and correct the density of several minerals like ilmenite which were in the raws, but which had incorrect values. My raws have notes of the values I changed.
My raws also correct the layers the gem tanzanite appears in. It (which should occur in metamorphic rocks
, not gabbro. The raws mentioned uncertainty, but it's definitely not the same as peridot. It should also be rare, but I didn't change that. IRL, tanzanite is only found in one place in the world
I found some very different data for the gypsum related minerals. I'm getting them all at the same density, except for anhydrite, which is a lot more dense than the others and I've consulted several different sources to check. The value already in there was too high and looked more like a value for anhydrite. If anyone wants to do more research, I suggest trying to find good average values for things with huge ranges (like pitchblende) or good data to differentiate the gemstones (the garnet group, in particular, has a big range and it's not clear where all of the members should fall in that range).
I made a broad categorization for gems, too. I don't know if this is useful, but maybe it could be used to simplify things. Some of the uncategorized gems might fit in the classifications given. I didn't research that, but maybe I should. Most of this comes from this great source for gem data
. If you notice, that table is properly colored, too, based on the gem's color. Most of my color research, though, was based on going to Google Image Search
and typing in the gem name. You do have to be careful to make sure you're getting a picture of the right gem, though, in a few cases.
Here's another nice list of gem properties
with a lot of specific gravities for use.Gem Data:
|BERYLS||Beryls, heliodor, aquamarine, emerald, goshenite, morganite||2770 (2630-2910)|
|CHRYSOBERYLS ||Chrysoberyl, alexandrite, cat's eye||3730 (3680-3780)|
|CORUNDUMS||Ruby, sapphire||4005 (3960-4050)|
|FELDSPARS||Moonstone, Sunstone||2655 (2550-2760)|
|GARNETS||Garnets, pyropes, melanite, demantoid, topazolite, grossulars / tsavorite, almandine, rhodolite, spessartines ||3900 (3500-4300)|
|QUARTZ||Amethyst, agates, aventurine, bloodstone, carnelian, citrine, chalcedonies, chrysoprase, jaspers, morion,|
onyx, prase, quartzes, sard, sardonyx, tiger eye, tiger iron
|SPINELS||Spinels, rubicelle||3820 (3580-4060)|
|TOURMALINES||Tourmalines, schorl||3140 (3030-3250)|
|UNCATEGORIZED||Schorl, variscite, chrysocolla, pyrite, peridot, tanzanite, kunzite||(see below)|
|Turquoise - (NOT CURRENTLY IN GAME) ||2700 (2600-2800)|
EDIT: Moved tiger iron to the quartz group and schorl to the tourmaline group. It might be worth adding turquoise as a gem
; I honestly didn't realize that it wasn't in the game already. Credit for that goes to Shinziril, who posted it in this thread.
Colors are weird. On one hand, some of those in game aren't too reasonable (cobaltite is not actually blue, it's greyish-silver, like iron, zinc, etc.), even though there is a cobalt blue pigment. Bismuth is the same. Yes, it can look purple, depending on the light. My sample really looks light blue to silver most of the time, though. And bloodstone, in spite of what you might think based on the name, is dark green for the most part (though it has deep red bands). And I don't even know how to represent opals, given that they have every color in them, though I guess most of them should be white or clear.
So feedback on the colors I put into those raws is appreciated.