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[Captain Mayday]

Glacier map.
Ice Fortress.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Ice blocks made from mining ice?

[4bh0r53n]

new idea- the mobile oppression palace:

code:

  ^=top of the towers
        x=stone
        X= doors
        E= ELEPHANTS
        ^^      ^^
        xx      xx
        xx      xx
        xx      xx
        xxxxxxxxxx
        xxxxxxxxxx
        xxxxxxxxxx
        xxxxXXxxxx
        EEEE  EEEE

basically what you need to do here is to mine out the main bit but have it extending downn to ground level. then you start mining out the bottom layer and replace the stone with (tame) Elephants. when you finish mining all the stone away, you should be left with a fortress that moves around the world on hundreds of Elephants, causing fear wherever it goes

XD

[Veroule]

Hrm, I think we need doors to be mountable to the ceiling now (doggy/kitty doors but dwarf sized).  That way you can have doors and fortifications in your tower.  Allows dwarves to jump out when they want to dig in at someone elses fortress and would allow for shooting out.

[Asehujiko]

If stale magma7 turned obsidian i would have a giant basin which i fill with lava, let it cool, mine it, fill it again etc.

And squeeze 50 darkstone swords in all traps along the edge of the map. Anything hostile approaching will arrive in chunks.

And since cave ins are out, we can now have floating fortresses. *runs off to begin working on a DF version of Necropolis Naxxramas*

[Leprechaun]

I'd have a great atrium with five waterfalls in a perfect hemisphere, and marble collonades., and my whole fortress will be full of waterways!

And traps. Lots and lots of traps.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I don't remember anything about cave-ins being "out"...  Makes quite little sense to me.

Hmm...  Toady, is it feasible to have the "maximum safe unsupported area" to be different according to the material above? I don't suppose all ground is rock in your world...  and since I mentioned mining ice...

[Asehujiko]

Toady said 7x7 wasn't feasable anymore and that  he didn't want to redo it yet.

[Leprechaun]

Why not just 7x7x7, taking height into accout, with a rounded roof eliminating cave-ins unless struck by something?

[Janus]

quote:Originally posted by Asehujiko:
<STRONG>Toady said 7x7 wasn't feasable anymore and that  he didn't want to redo it yet.</STRONG>

Actually he said 7x7 wasn't feasible and he didn't know quite how he was going to do cave-ins, but that they'll definitely be in the next version in some form. That's also one of the things in his "next version release checklist".

EDIT: and 7x7 is out since mountains can now be oddly shaped and have a small section which is less than 7x7; wouldn't be right to be able to mine it completely out and not have it collapse, eh?

[ May 30, 2007: Message edited by: Janus ]

[Jaqie Fox]

Plans?

To explore the new game.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I think there's several things that should impact cave-ins. They are: ceiling and support material hardness (I think that's in already) and distance from nearest support. For all purposes, I think a support counts as a wall, and vice versa.

It should be tied to the real-world effects of supported celings - the further a point of celing is from a supporting structure, the more weight it takes, and it is therefore less strong, in effect.
Thus, if we take the celing's hardness and reduce its hardness in proportion to the distance to the nearest support, we will at some point get a tile that will be too 'soft' to remain in place, and it will create a cave-in.
Layers are in, and I think it should be right to take the material for the cave-in from the upper layers. The cave-in will be a triggered event that will use the RNG and the stress of surrounding celing tiles to define the amount of stone (soil, ice, whatever) that it will effect, on all axis.
This system might have a nice side-effect. If you mine out layers of rock one above another, leaving a 1-wide strip of ceiling along the walls on the layer below, you will get a stable dome shape - the ceiling of each layer will have support from the wall below.

Of course, it's just my view of things. I like to think I can imagine a solution to any problem, however unviable it may turn out.  

[MindSnap]

would there be any requirement that the supports actually touch the ceiling in a multi-level system? there should, but I can't think of a way to code that. Other wise you could have:

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx...xxxxx
xxxxx......xxxx
xxxx.........xxx
xxxx.x....x.xxx
xxxx.x....x.xxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

with the middle pillars supporting stuff on their level.

EDIT: ascii thing screwed up

[ May 31, 2007: Message edited by: MindSnap ]

[ May 31, 2007: Message edited by: MindSnap ]

[ May 31, 2007: Message edited by: MindSnap ]

[Heliopios]

7x7x4 seems like a great maximum support area.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, I see no reason to do that actually...  The supports can be placed however you desire, but any piece of ceiling not linked to a support (this requires having a piece of that ceiling to be directly on the support) should generate a cave-in. If the tile's just floating in the air by itself, it can't make more than 1 tile worth of stone to fall. Unlinked ceilings are technically an infinite distance from supports, and are infinitely weak according to the system, so the RNG will easily generate cave-ins involving the entire ceiling. Although real life allows hanging pillars (stalaktites), and this system won't..

Or did you mean some more elaborate exploit?