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Author Topic: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)  (Read 4429 times)

Patchy

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2011, 10:23:43 pm »

Whats wrong with just houseruling your use of the DAS technology? Noone out there is making you use it for things you don't want. Then again I usually build near the magma sea and use a garbage chute into it as my dump, and while I can see the surface or near surface forts not wanting to build a chute that far down, it doesn't take anymore time than say building a magma pumpstack to do so. In fact the magma pumpstacks take considerably more time and resources to construct than a garbage chute and people build those quite often.
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Angel Of Death

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2011, 11:38:25 pm »

I think the grinder ( if it's put in) should have to have an anvil, magma safe giant corkscrew, a hammer and some coke as fuel. The stuff is bashed, grinded, burned and bashed some more into junk powder, which is flamable.
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 11:46:52 pm »

I do agree, the atom-smasher needs to be fixed. However, as stated above, there needs to be some sort of equivalent for all the useless items we get, the furnace idea sounds like it would work, but it would take any item. Including the artifact mace that your weaponsmith just made. Plus it costs something to use, three fuel! I can make three swords for that much, and it doesn't seem that realistic.

There should be an atom-smasher, but perhaps a one tile wide one that wouldn't hurt creatures, and like a floodgate wait for humans to be out of the way before it closes/opens.
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I say keep the atom-smashers for those who need them for now, add new features to gradually make them less needed :-

Optimizing hauling (loading zones where dwarves haul containers - a new container which can hold multiple stones, wheelbarrows, dwarves using backpacks etc. wagons pulled by domestic animals which can be loaded up / sent to place needed - lots of options here).

It takes about same effort to move a single seed or a sock now as to move a statue. dwarves should collect multiple similar objects (those destined for the same stockpile), eg lots of seeds, lots of clothes/finished goods, and when ready, deposit them all to the same stockpile.

Standing production orders for managers would reduce excess production to player-controlled margins, while being able to better control materials used for specific things would eliminate all the Diorite floodgates when I'm trying to make a few Bauxite ones.

Be able to mark wooden objects to be burnt to ash or charcoal at the wood burner - recycling and a fuel source - this would also make fertilizing fields practical, meaning more 4x as efficient food and booze stockpiles. A composting system (or manure system) could also be added for another source of fertilizer. This would be a way to dispose of excess plant material. Maybe clothing articles could be thrown into the compost too, or burnt to ash (but not charcoal) this works IRL.

Stone items could be recycled by crushing them to a powder (stored in bags) and mixed with lime to make cement powder (a very ancient building technique). Several bags of cement (eg 'Diorite Cement') could be pour into a channel, along with several buckets of water to fill the channel with cement. Alternatively, they could be caste at a workshop into cement blocks and use like normal, which would require less changes to the game.

Also a little idea I had which doesn't really affect # of objects is let bags be stored in bins rather than take up a whole square in a stockpile (i.e. just like with seed barrels etc).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 12:08:26 am by Reelyanoob »
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 11:57:43 pm »

Why not just give everything that you want to get rid of, and which has a positive value, to the traders.
Modding unbelievable levels of TRADE_CAPACITY for pack animals allows this.

...  I usually build near the magma sea and use a garbage chute into it as my dump ...
... Which is as good as an Atom-Smasher for waste disposal as long as the dump goes down to Magma Flow/ SMR. Nothing survives hitting this. Dropping into a volcano should give the same effect, as they should have Magma sea / SMR directly below.

It seems outlawing Atom-Smashers would just lead players to use the alternatives.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 12:04:50 am by Reelyanoob »
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IT 000

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2011, 12:11:35 am »

Quote
... Which is as good as an Atom-Smasher for waste disposal as long as the dump goes down to Magma Flow/ SMR. Nothing survives hitting this. Dropping into a volcano should give the same effect, as they should have Magma sea / SMR directly below.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. But what would you do in mods where, in all likelihood, you would not reach the Magma sea or be by a volcano? Certainly those mods need a way to efficiently erase items.
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2011, 12:20:21 am »

Quote
... Which is as good as an Atom-Smasher for waste disposal as long as the dump goes down to Magma Flow/ SMR. Nothing survives hitting this. Dropping into a volcano should give the same effect, as they should have Magma sea / SMR directly below.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. But what would you do in mods where, in all likelihood, you would not reach the Magma sea or be by a volcano? Certainly those mods need a way to efficiently erase items.
Not saying it's the ultimate answer or anything, I wasn't aware of some of those mods though, just that taking out atom-smashers in no way enhances the game, except to make Atom-Smashing less accessible to the new player. I'm sure there's other object-destroying mechanisms which would be developed if Bridges and SMR didn't exist.

Actually on a side note, I discovered building a Burrow and/or Pasture zone in an atom-smasher give a no-fuss method of executing pets and their owners. I had three cat-loving dwarves (fond of cats) in this fort. One adopted 6, one had 5 and the other 3. All pets + owners => Atom Smasher and a single lever-pull ended my kitten problem without tantrums. There were 30 Children running around so I atom-smashed most of them too. That caused massive Tantrums though.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 12:25:38 am by Reelyanoob »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2011, 01:29:29 am »

Why not just give everything that you want to get rid of, and which has a positive value, to the traders.
Modding unbelievable levels of TRADE_CAPACITY for pack animals allows this.

That can have some serious unintended consequences.
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2011, 06:13:56 am »

Why not just give everything that you want to get rid of, and which has a positive value, to the traders.
Modding unbelievable levels of TRADE_CAPACITY for pack animals allows this.

That can have some serious unintended consequences.

I modded that in the EXACT same way you did in the thread (x100) but I'm only getting normal-sized deliveries, though they can take away a lot more. Maybe I did something different?
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Dutchling

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2011, 09:56:01 am »

I really do not want something like a grinder or a trashburner workshop. It just sounds stupid and has no actual in-game use (FPS doesn't change the game at all, it only makes it run faster).
A landfill however, sounds like a good idea.
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kaenneth

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2011, 09:10:39 pm »

...There were 30 Children running around so I atom-smashed most of them too. That caused massive Tantrums though.

You Monster.

Anyway... would it be feasable to mod in a custom workshop that takes commonly overstocked items and condenses them to a storable form? like take 100 Granite to make 1 'Load of Granite', ideally you would build the workshop in middle of the cluster of items to be condensed, to make the hauling jobs short until the condensation is complete... removing 99 items from the Stocks list, and with a possible reverse reaction to make 100 stones from the load. That would only work for items without quality...

Or a "Rock Pile" 'workshop' that occupies minimal space (1x1?) that takes 100 units of material to build... except the components of a building still show up in stocks? but maybe will help FPS since they are fixed into a structure. (and woe if a building destroyer gets loose in the piles...)

Now I'm imagining what jobs could be performed in a 'Sock Pile' workshop, built with 100 socks... (deconstructable to maintain the quality/history) data.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2011, 09:25:29 pm »

A "load of granite" sounds interesting.

You could call it a block, and have a reaction that reverses the process, if you wanted.  Then you could build a wall with a single "load of granite", which would remove it from play until you wanted to mess with it again.

Of course, at the same time, you could just use a "prospecting mod" at that time, where you grind up hundreds of stones for some random chances at metal.
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Naryar

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2011, 06:35:45 am »

Why bother with atom smashers ? Magma flow tiles eat anything and everything you throw at it.

You can also throw things into eerie glowing pits, but that's a bit more DIFFICULT than magma flow...

profit

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2011, 09:31:35 pm »

If this idea was ever implemented my mod would get MUCH more popular.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=52026.0

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Jeoshua

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2011, 05:43:12 am »

That's honestly what I think about when this topic is mentioned, profit.  Basically it would be a more advanced version of the Item Annihalator, in Vanilla.
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irmo

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Re: Atom smasher removal. (warning, very small suggestion)
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2011, 09:57:31 am »

Whats wrong with just houseruling your use of the DAS technology?

This thread demonstrates what's wrong with it, i.e. having it in the game results in new features accreting around it.
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