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Author Topic: embarassing question  (Read 3189 times)

soul4hdwn

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embarassing question
« on: April 09, 2011, 06:31:30 am »

what is the difference between a spear and a pike?  please don't direct me to the raw's.
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EmperorJon

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2011, 06:34:59 am »

Well if you look in the raws... ;)

You'll see that pikes are much much bigger, need you to be much bigger to wield, and are usually 2 handed. And use pike skill, not spear, obviously.
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McDwarf

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2011, 06:50:23 am »

A pike is a type fish, while a spear is a type of weapon that can be made by dwarves.
Dwarves can't make pikes, and which look to be twice as big as spears.
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soul4hdwn

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2011, 07:17:09 am »

ok, so the honest difference is only size?
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tomas1297

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2011, 07:23:49 am »

 Spear:
 

 Pike:
 

 Keep in mind the spearheads are about the same size. Basically, pike= 2 hand spear.
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Vattic

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2011, 07:34:00 am »

In the UK it was traditional to put the heads of your decapitated enemies, especially traitors, on the ends of pikes. They even occasionally dipped them in tar to preserve them. Leaving them in the open to send a clear message. It sounds more like something the goblins would do. Couldn't you find the desecrated remains of past adventures outside dark fortresses?
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noodle0117

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2011, 10:27:24 am »

If you have a dwarf wield a pike, maul, or two hand sword, he won't be able to wield a shield.
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Shook

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2011, 10:29:49 am »

ok, so the honest difference is only size?
Pretty much. And the skill required. The difference between a pikeman and a spearman should be obvious right now.
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JAFANZ

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2011, 08:44:16 pm »

The main difference between Pikemen & Spearmen is that Cavalry find it much harder to ride-down Pikemen who haven't routed, whereas when they're running away they're all pretty much equally vulnerable.

I have my doubts as to how much effect this would have in DF though.
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Starver

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2011, 09:03:09 pm »

I once had a go (with The Sealed Knot, due to going with a friend to see his Knot-involved girlfriend) as a civil war[1] pikeman.  Very good in defence, if you can ignore muskets going off above your head and avoid getting burnt by the flaming wadding, and horses won't get near you.  With a little training they can attack well (we didn't, as we were sent to attack a bush, got the wrong bush and apparently also lost the combat. :) ), although pikes vs pikes gets a bit messy.  When manoeuvring (and bearing in mind that power-lines weren't an issue, back then, but are a hazard to avoid these days) you're generally Ok going in straight lines, even through hedges, turning can be awkward and you'd need to put your more experienced pikes at the edges of a line to avoid flanking.  When running away, best off to drop your pike and forget about it.

Spears, on the other hand, I know from elsewhere, are much more handleable and largely meant to be thrown, but means you really need multiple spears and they tend to run out.  They're much less ranged and easy to carry en-mass than either bow or crossbow ammo, and lower range, so once those technologies come into play you're not going to (IRL) stick with spears so much.  In fact, ranged attacks are good against pikes as well, obviously, so when it comes to fielding against such a projectile-based enemy you'd probably avoid fielding either pikes or spears directly against those other unit types.

[1] English Civil War, of course, for those who hadn't worked that out.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 09:03:56 pm »

The main difference between Pikemen & Spearmen is that Cavalry find it much harder to ride-down Pikemen who haven't routed, whereas when they're running away they're all pretty much equally vulnerable.

I have my doubts as to how much effect this would have in DF though.
What, because dwarves haven't figured out the goblins' tricks of sitting on big, tame animals?
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Necro910

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 09:35:22 pm »

The main difference between Pikemen & Spearmen is that Cavalry find it much harder to ride-down Pikemen who haven't routed, whereas when they're running away they're all pretty much equally vulnerable.

I have my doubts as to how much effect this would have in DF though.
What, because dwarves haven't figured out the goblins' tricks of sitting on big, tame animals?
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Fredd

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 01:10:59 am »

Otherwords, Pikes(Polearms) are a cavalry defense. Since  dwarves live underground, would not utilize large scale surface combat techniques, relying mainly on defensive position, and standard melee weapons, for close quarter fighting.
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JAFANZ

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 03:15:19 am »

The main difference between Pikemen & Spearmen is that Cavalry find it much harder to ride-down Pikemen who haven't routed, whereas when they're running away they're all pretty much equally vulnerable.

I have my doubts as to how much effect this would have in DF though.
What, because dwarves haven't figured out the goblins' tricks of sitting on big, tame animals?

More because you can't deploy a tight formation of Pikedorfs against a tight formation of enemy Cavalry.

Pikes gain their effectiveness against Cavalry primarily from forming a sharp steel "Hedge" which the horses can't run through & don't want to jump over, whilst also allowing the Pikers to stick a sharp pointy thing into the rider without getting into sword range (Cavalries main advantages being Weight, Speed, & Height).
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UnrealJake

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Re: embarassing question
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 03:17:32 am »

The main difference between Pikemen & Spearmen is that Cavalry find it much harder to ride-down Pikemen who haven't routed, whereas when they're running away they're all pretty much equally vulnerable.

I have my doubts as to how much effect this would have in DF though.
What, because dwarves haven't figured out the goblins' tricks of sitting on big, tame animals?

More because you can't deploy a tight formation of Pikedorfs against a tight formation of enemy Cavalry.

Pikes gain their effectiveness against Cavalry primarily from forming a sharp steel "Hedge" which the horses can't run through & don't want to jump over, whilst also allowing the Pikers to stick a sharp pointy thing into the rider without getting into sword range (Cavalries main advantages being Weight, Speed, & Height).

Rock, paper, scissors!
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