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Author Topic: Dwarven Guidance Counselor 0.0.6 11 May 2011  (Read 51793 times)

ral

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2011, 01:28:49 am »

This seems like the kind of thing that would be good to integrate with Dwarf Therapist. DT already contains the information. Something like a lua engine to run arbitrary scripts in DT that make use of DT's data would be kind of cool.

thijser

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2011, 01:41:28 am »

Could you link this to the therapist so it will be able to tell you what dwarf has the best chance of being good at a certain labor aswell?
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ral

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 01:47:09 am »

That's what I was talking about. I think I'll download the src for DT and learn how to build it. Maybe I can get a lua scripting engine working or something, if it isn't too difficult for some reason.

celem

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 04:04:08 am »

Mmm nice app mate.  I might have a poke about with it since Javascript is kinda my thing and im projectless right now.

Incidentally you can get your javascript to write to the local disk, provided you can persuade your user to grant some 'trust'.

My favorite method is a java applet embedded in the html that handles local file system stuff.  Self-sign it and users can trust it to let it do its thing.  You can also do some filesystem operations with an ActiveX control but I imagine more users are gonna have these off/blocked.
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knaveofstaves

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 07:46:48 pm »

Mmm nice app mate.  I might have a poke about with it since Javascript is kinda my thing and im projectless right now.

Incidentally you can get your javascript to write to the local disk, provided you can persuade your user to grant some 'trust'.

My favorite method is a java applet embedded in the html that handles local file system stuff.  Self-sign it and users can trust it to let it do its thing.  You can also do some filesystem operations with an ActiveX control but I imagine more users are gonna have these off/blocked.

I've having some trust issues at the moment, actually, of a simpler nature. I can't convince IE9 to http get a local XML file, though it'll read it if I slap an old-timey doctype on it and use a data island, which makes this an awesome security control if I can get around it with two lines of markup that everyone in the world knows. I keep getting "SCRIPT5: Access is denied", which it clearly isn't. ...isn't it sublimely ridiculous that there's no button here for the headwall smiley. I am frustrated in expressing my frustration! But any advice is welcome.

In other news the script works just fine in Firefox 3.6.16. I don't want to upload just that, though, if I do I'll never finish the IE side :P
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Dwarven Guidance Counselor, my little scripting project.

RevolutionaryDorf

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 10:48:23 pm »

My secret personal fantasy is using a program like this to determine what a dwarf's political alignment would be via their personality, for something like tallying made-up votes of a "dwarven senate" for a self-imposed challenge game. I spent a while trying to devise a pen-and-paper calculation system for this but eventually gave up.

A strong, iron-willed, un-trusting dwarf with high aggression would vote for authoritarian things like a migrant concentration camp directly inside the magma pit.

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knaveofstaves

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2011, 09:38:04 am »

Thanks everybody for the suggestions and support.
By roles I mean more like any "job description" which may possibly involve multiple skills. This would be highly user-dependent, so would be best served by letting players create and share profiles in which they weight various skills and abilities, with their own custom Professions, much like how Dwarf Therapist handles it, but with user-defined weightings on the various skills.

My recent experience with loading and writing files says profiles seem hard. But custom-defined skill groups -- on average, how would this dwarf do at skills x, y, and z -- seems doable.

I wonder if there's a way for their item preferences to also be considered.

For example, a dwarf that likes steel would make a good weaponsmith or armorsmith, since he'll get a bonus on quality on anything he makes with steel.

Yeah, a lot of people look at preferences for this sort of thing. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's subjective -- I know exactly which skills are affected by Strength, and I have a good model for how much, but I'd need to hear a consensus to know how much it's worth to like steel.

That's what I was talking about. I think I'll download the src for DT and learn how to build it. Maybe I can get a lua scripting engine working or something, if it isn't too difficult for some reason.

I hear DT is looking for a project manager, isn't it? I'd love to shut DGC down and tell everybody DT does it all now.

My secret personal fantasy is using a program like this to determine what a dwarf's political alignment would be via their personality, for something like tallying made-up votes of a "dwarven senate" for a self-imposed challenge game. I spent a while trying to devise a pen-and-paper calculation system for this but eventually gave up.

This is the sort of thing I could do, technically, but the question is the specs. You nominate dwarfs to the Senate, the script keeps their relevant traits around, and that Senate takes certain pre-defined sorts of votes? We players see ourselves as the will of the Republic, and limit our actions somehow?

maybe it's just a fluke, but all my dwarves are waaay happier than they normally are at this point in the game.

I've noticed this too! Thought 139, "Urist has been satisfied at work lately." I'd like to hear from more people on this. If it's true that matching dwarves to skills via attributes increases happiness, this sort of thing is more important than I thought, and I bothered to write a script about it!
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RevolutionaryDorf

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2011, 04:36:49 pm »

This is the sort of thing I could do, technically, but the question is the specs. You nominate dwarfs to the Senate, the script keeps their relevant traits around, and that Senate takes certain pre-defined sorts of votes? We players see ourselves as the will of the Republic, and limit our actions somehow?

Yes, you're mostly right. I figured that dwarf culture was work-centric, meaning that their governments would be designed around guilds (I called them "associations" in the plans I wrote up). The associations would lobby and compromise for the professions they represented in the legislature, attempting to gain them greater influence in the fortress economy.

Perhaps there are a lot of metalsmiths in your fortress. They would have a proportional number of association representatives in the senate that you would appoint based on their skill level, in this example, to the "Forges" association. During a session, they would propose a vote (that the player makes up) to do something like "expand the production of metal" or "increase the size of the forge workshop room". The rest of the senate, comprised of all the various association representatives would then vote on the proposal, using traits like "empathy" and "cooperation" to decide how they'd vote. Other factors like the linguistic ability of the dwarves proposing the legislation would affect the reaction of the senate. Measures that passed would be implemented by the player.

This sort of system makes logical role-playing sense, because the "government" as it is abstracted now is centrally planned. The associations act as a way to pretend that the central planning has some sort of democratic process behind it.

Political ideology votes would be separate from association votes. different personality trait levels would add or subtract "ideology" points. For example, Dwarves that admire tradition would gain "Conservative" points depending on how powerful their admiration is, and un-trusting dwarves would gain "authoritarian" points. The use of a calculation program would just make it easier to find out what the political alignment of each senator was, and then role-play the fortress in the way your "citizens" would actually have done it if they had free will.

Summary:
1. nominate dwarves to senate.
2. put their traits in the program. The program would tell their political alignment and how persuasive they are (all the
    senators' stats would be remembered and their names/data kept in a list that you could add or take away dwarves from)
3. when taking a vote, you input the ideology that is benefited by your made-up legislation, and who proposed it.
4. calculations are done to see how each representative votes, factoring in the persuasion of the proposing dwarf and
    deciding whether it passes or not.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm exhausted right now.
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Tryble

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 04:40:22 pm »

For example, a dwarf that likes steel would make a good weaponsmith or armorsmith, since he'll get a bonus on quality on anything he makes with steel.

Buh-wha?  Dwarves get quality bonuses on making things out of material they like?  If that's right, that is neat and I like it.
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ral

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2011, 06:28:46 pm »

I hear DT is looking for a project manager, isn't it? I'd love to shut DGC down and tell everybody DT does it all now.

Not sure... At the very least someone is keeping the memory mappings up to date with newer versions but I don't know of anyone adding new features. I've heard of some people working on a mac port though.

I wouldn't be a good project manager though because I haven't written any C++ in forever, and I've never done anything with Qt. I did download the code and got it building on my laptop, and I downloaded lua and got it building under the Qt IDE with qmake, but I haven't done anything beyond that yet.

If I do manage to add lua support to DT, I wouldn't want to implement DGC myself though. Basically I'd just implement something sort of like the current advanced search feature that lets you enter complex boolean expressions to find dwarves matching a certain criteria, except that you'd be able to write full scripts and not just search expressions.

Basically this would allow you to create DGC for DT as a lua "plugin" script. It could come standard with DT or not. And, anyone else who wanted to make some sort of fancy decision-making script could do so as well. Who knows what people might come up with.... Anyway, it seems within the DT vision statement of being a decision support tool.

(lua is very simple and somewhat similar to javascript)

knaveofstaves

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2011, 08:38:35 pm »

Yes, you're mostly right. I figured that dwarf culture was work-centric, meaning that their governments would be designed around guilds (I called them "associations" in the plans I wrote up). The associations would lobby and compromise for the professions they represented in the legislature, attempting to gain them greater influence in the fortress economy.

I'm guessing you name them guilds now because you see that Toady has such things in the devlog? So we should put off planning this bit of metagaming until we know how they're implemented in-game? I mean, you can PM me all the details if you want, so I can get a full idea of the scope.

(lua is very simple and somewhat similar to javascript)

*googles lua* ...hunh. 15 years of Brazilian protectionist trade policies. Really! I don't know enough about how DT works to say how invested in this I'd get. I'll take a closer look at it, maybe PHP-Qt is something I could understand.
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RevolutionaryDorf

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor 0.0.3 27 Apr 2011
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2011, 10:03:51 pm »

I'm guessing you name them guilds now because you see that Toady has such things in the devlog? So we should put off planning this bit of metagaming until we know how they're implemented in-game? I mean, you can PM me all the details if you want, so I can get a full idea of the scope.

Agreed. Looking back on it, the paragraphs related to the associations/guilds were out of context ramblings. The real program I'm looking for is something that puts dwarves in political categories based on their personalities, for easier political style role-playing. My previous post made my idea look way more complex than it actually is. I'll PM you about how everything would fit together.
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Pearlie

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor 0.0.3 27 Apr 2011
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 06:34:28 am »

I can't get the new version to work. I'm using the correct version of firefox and I patched runesmith, however the Dwarf List contains only three of my dwarves with their skills listed below each one as if they were dwarves.. Looking at my xml file and the one you included it seems that Runesmith is exporting all info despite only the 5 needed being ticked... I don't know what's wrong :/
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knaveofstaves

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor 0.0.3 27 Apr 2011
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 07:38:37 am »

I can't get the new version to work. I'm using the correct version of firefox and I patched runesmith, however the Dwarf List contains only three of my dwarves with their skills listed below each one as if they were dwarves.. Looking at my xml file and the one you included it seems that Runesmith is exporting all info despite only the 5 needed being ticked... I don't know what's wrong :/

I've noticed that Runesmith exports more than you ask it to, but that shouldn't be a problem... it's true, though, I didn't thoroughly debug this. I was so happy to get it working on my own machine!

Did you keep the sample I provided? Do you recall whether it worked properly? Where were you in DF when you made the XML, and how many dwarves did you have?

I'll use More Embark Dwarves and see if I can break the script with huge files.

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phoenixuk

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Re: Dwarven Guidance Counselor 0.0.3 27 Apr 2011
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 08:19:13 am »

Well this program has confirmed what i already suspected... my starting seven suck at everything except getting drunk and socialising...
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