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[harborpirate]

Did I forgot Greek fire flasks to be thrown/syphon projector (AKA middle age epoch flamethrowers) siege weapons ? Yes I did.

I beat you to mentioning Greek fire, but didn't speculate on its uses.

I do agree that if it's in the game, it needs to be an alchemical reaction.

[antymattar]

Ibeat everyone to mentioning atlantis which is famous for inventing flying cars and timemachines!

[Bohandas]

Implementation of Alchemy + Implementation  of Dynamic Economy = This Comic

[Cespinarve]

Now, alchemy is just a skill, but it's still a skill with no actual jobs.

If you want alchemists, you first have to invent alchemy.

To quote Carl Sagan: To make an apple pie from scratch, one must first create the universe.

Gentles, the potential for recursion within DF is clear. I say we grasp it with both hands. Inside a *crystal glass vial*, an alchemist creates a little world. After millennia of growth and change, the computer comes to pass, and with it, an entertainment game called dwarf fortress. And in that game, inside a *crystal glass vial*, an alchemist creates a little world...

[antymattar]

 

[Livingstone]

I'm with NW_Kohaku here, lets get this thing back on track and try and discuss what Alchemy should actually do.

I am definitely hoping Alchemy to be the drawbridge to the Danger Room for non-military skills. (The type of drawbridge that you could retract to prevent access from that unfun-loving exploit-whining mob out there)

So let me clear the following post:
Alchemy hopefully equals drugs, magic potions and transmutation or at least the modding base for those


What you currently can do, is mod the alchemist's laboratories in.
What those modded in laboratories could do, is practically anything you can do with any current workshop.

What I would like to see is the ability to mod in (or out) potions that would affect skills, attributes, rusting rates, age, gender and so forth, so that one could mod in e.g. 'Cat' potions to level up observer, 'Swallow' to enhance healing and so on, thus enhancing overall possibilities of modding or simply put, the possibility to mod in "the essence of a demigod dwarf in a potion". Hell, let's go all in and make it possible for a modded alchemist to change anything about a dwarf including turning him/her into a fricking animal.

They could also be a bit like the actual laboratories do in real life: "Hey, drink this vial of Kobold Bulb Extract, let's see what happens" *test subject drinks, falls unconscious and later on succumbs to infection* "Oh well, this world we live in... is really that cruel and I'm so going to be punished for dwarficide".

Soap making was actually alchemist's duty before it branched off to live on it's own, so experimenting with new possible substances could actually be within Alchemist's laboratories.

Also, herbalists are currently lacking any use in late game, while anything can be grown, so alchemy, potions, herbs and the related know-how could boost herbalists' usability to new heights.

Some could consider "demi-god dwarf in a potion" a bit of an exploit, but same people often desist to build danger rooms for their exploitatory nature also, so it'd become only an addition to the list of personal preferences.

This needn't be too easy for the dwarves though:

• to  start experimenting you could need at least that much experience in Herbalism and that much in Alchemy,
• unhealthy fumes generated by working in laboratory indoors could result in even your constantly exposed Legendary Herbalist to succumb to infection
• overusing potions on one dwarf would result in a year long hangover spent in hospital with constant need for cleaning (since alcohol doesn't visibly work that way)
• disregarding such warning could result in death due to constantly high toxicity levels draining the health of dwarf in question

• Alchemy should be the combination of two or more substances, with the result generally being of a type of one of the substances used.
• ie. Alchemy with potions could have a (skill level or production difficulty) dependent chance of producing a vial of gutter cruor (example, for it's low value)
• Using certain powerful potions would result in addiction, mishandled addictions to berserk rage and/or death
• To mix certain powerful potions, you'd have to use a container of certain type (clear glass/crystal glass vial (those are pointless as of now), rose gold/black bronze/.. flask (liquid container of any alloy really.. no one in their right mind needs them)
• An addict of a baron would be mandating a supply all the time, so the joy of dismembering him would be worth the risk of losing a fort to a spiraling tantrum

Benefits

• There could be potion to boost strange mood probability (since alcohol doesn't visibly work that way)
• The aforementioned example potions to boost Observer, Healing and new ones for boosting assertiveness (since alcohol doesn't visibly work that way) or inducing a seething unconsciousness to mend a broken heart.. (since alcohol doesn't visibly work that way)
  
• So I could finally have my Guild of 'Dwarves on NZT'

That's my five cents on the subject. If you agree, please do vote in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/eternal_voting.php (search for magic potions if need be)

Bumping this to point out that, if you go with my suggestion, you could end up with an alchemical philosopher's stone that produces an extract that causes the unaging syndrone when you drink it and also turns lead into gold. But you could also get one that turns ale into liquid fire, or water into blood. Food for thought.

These you can actually mod in, without the odd bit of "unaging syndrone"

Would like to see gunpowder made by alchemists. Really, mix coal, saltpeter and brimstone.

What you probably mean by gunpowder is actually explosives.

1. A setting on whether Alchemical reactions should be procedurally* generated by the game during worldgen.
2. A list of valid Alchemical reactions, which provides the only valid reactions for the Alchemists shop if procedural generation is off.

"Science only" players can just list all the reactions that they want in the raws and turn off procedural generation. Players that are interested in generating a magical or strange world that doesn't operate like ours can opt for the route that procedurally generates reactions and has no preexisting reactions. Other players could opt for a combination of both known and new reactions, by leaving generation on but adding some known reactions.

In either case, reactions will be unknown to the player and must be discovered; unless the player entered the reactions in the raws manually, or uses a mod which provides reactions that they're familiar with, in which case obviously they'll know what they are.

I agree, except procedurally generated alchemy products would probably be ridiculous and/or useless while providing some entertainment value (as seen with the Forgotten Beasts made of water, and those as earthworms which overrun your fort). The world generation option would satisfy both sides.

Some possible examples that could be generated:
A blood barrel combined with milk might result in a barrel of blood wine.
A vinegar barrel, water barrel, and animal hide could produce a gelatin barrel.
A bar of aluminum, a barrel of cockroach ichor, and a barrel of longland beer might produce a bar of gold.

The furnaces have already assumed the role of creating most metal alloys, but perhaps exotic alloys and electroplating could be possible at the alchemists shop.

These can be modded in currently, although I hardly see the point of wasting a full barrel of cockroach ichor to get a useless bar of gold ^^

[ThreeToe]

I had to delete a pretty nasty derail.  Let me know if there are any more problems.

[antymattar]

On this thread? WOW! Nice to see threetow appear!

Anyway, I like the herbalism idea. Perhaps the dwarf would go and pick up the heeb himself instead of picking ALL the plants on the map. Also, the hard part about the potions is that how does a dwarf realise that he needs a potion?

[harborpirate]

"Urist McAlchemist cancels make blood wine : no darkflower available". But the point about getting specific herbs is a good one, it would be nice if it was easier to designate only collecting a specific herb. I'm sure that's been requested a dozen times already but alchemy could make it much more important than it is now.

[antymattar]

Plus medicine. Ya know. Alcemy makes wound powder from plaster bowder and valey herbs and kitten bones.