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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1154220 times)

Dsarker

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2940 on: November 18, 2011, 04:23:25 pm »

Maybe :)
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Kittah_Khan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2941 on: November 18, 2011, 06:42:10 pm »

Mendoza
You'll have to be 35 times faster to get the same impact from an Ada hammer(0.23) as from a steel (7.8 ) one. That would be the equivalent of a projectile, I guess. :/
Also, with such low densities/speeds, air friction will also become a major factor.

Kinetic Energy = Mass*Velocity Squared
The adamantine hammer only has 1/34th of the kinetic energy at the same velocity, yes, but it does not need to move 34 times faster to direct 34 times as much kinetic energy, it only needs to move the root of 34 times faster, slightly less than 6 times, which is doable...once....probably.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 06:47:06 pm by Kittah_Khan »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2942 on: November 18, 2011, 08:53:58 pm »

Mendoza
You'll have to be 35 times faster to get the same impact from an Ada hammer(0.23) as from a steel (7.8 ) one. That would be the equivalent of a projectile, I guess. :/
Also, with such low densities/speeds, air friction will also become a major factor.

Kinetic Energy = Mass*Velocity Squared
The adamantine hammer only has 1/34th of the kinetic energy at the same velocity, yes, but it does not need to move 34 times faster to direct 34 times as much kinetic energy, it only needs to move the root of 34 times faster, slightly less than 6 times, which is doable...once....probably.

Some people here are probably forgetting that you can only swing your arm so fast. You probably can't swing an adamantine hammer 6 times as fast as a steel one.

Of course, this all goes back to the obvious, common sense argument: If a lighter hammer were more usable than a heavier one, then steel hammers would be made lighter in the first place. It's not as if it's hard to make something with a smaller head.
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Ak-Sai

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2943 on: November 19, 2011, 04:57:38 am »

Good day to everyone!

Sorry if that question was already mentioned before, but:
Would Toady add some culture-dependent pro's and con's in game?
For example, there might be a pool of '+' and  '-' traits from which civilization pattern are created during the world gen.

There might be '+' like a 'boost to masonry skill' 'less dependence to brewery' or 'ability to craft "some_specific_weapon" ', etc .

And '-' like 'poorer health', or 'more likely to succumb to infections/diseases', 'less knowledge of farming'etc.

So we can expect to have something like that:
"World has three civs:
1. Blackrock clan - better weaponsmiths but poor trading skills
2. Broken Anvils - extremely healthy but tends to have problem with smithing
3. Drunken artisans - tends to have 'strange mood' more often but consumes double amount of alcohol
(Of course number of traits might be more than two).

And that might lead to interesting things in future, like a cultural wars or building isolationist-style society (like medieval Japan) and so on.

Thanks ahead for everyone for readying and replying.

P.S. Sorry for possible mistakes. My English is not so good as I want it to be. But I'm working on it )
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 05:03:21 am by Ak-Sai »
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jellsprout

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2944 on: November 19, 2011, 05:59:10 am »

The head won't bounce back, because it's rigid.

Because the head is rigid, it won't be able to deform. As a result no energy will be lost in the deformation and the head should bounce back again. It is difficult to find the correct answer for this, because no material exists which is as rigid and light as adamantine, so we can't really compare it to anything.

Kinetic Energy = Mass*Velocity Squared
The adamantine hammer only has 1/34th of the kinetic energy at the same velocity, yes, but it does not need to move 34 times faster to direct 34 times as much kinetic energy, it only needs to move the root of 34 times faster, slightly less than 6 times, which is doable...once....probably.

I doubt it is possible to move your arm 6 times faster. In comparison, there is also a factor 6 difference between walking and driving in the inner city. Even if you are not holding anything, I doubt you can swing your arm 6 times faster than if you are holding an iron hammer.

This discussion makes me wish we had brass knuckles or something.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2945 on: November 19, 2011, 06:05:52 am »

More cultural diversity and contrast is definitely planned, and a  bit of a framework already exists for it, specifically for the plot potential. It is however unlikely it will take the form of "gamey" weighing pros and cons with each other, and would rather be based on circumstances in worldgen and random influences. So your Blackrock clan might come into being in some way if the civilization is beset by several goblins (making weaponsmithing essential) while having little contact to friendly civilization, or your Broken Anvils in the reverse situation.
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ab00

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2946 on: November 19, 2011, 10:06:31 am »

Just one thing I noticed about vampires and sunlight: How about having them automatically cave-adapted? Although, some of the historical migrants probably should also be cave adapted then.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2947 on: November 19, 2011, 12:06:55 pm »

Just one thing I noticed about vampires and sunlight: How about having them automatically cave-adapted? Although, some of the historical migrants probably should also be cave adapted then.

What? Sunlight doesn't hurt vampires. It makes them Twinkle like diamonds... because you see when you die your skin crystalizes. So when a vampire rises from the grave they still have the crystalized skin.

More seriously it should depend on the vampire.
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Dutchling

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2948 on: November 19, 2011, 04:20:49 pm »

Mendoza
You'll have to be 35 times faster to get the same impact from an Ada hammer(0.23) as from a steel (7.8 ) one. That would be the equivalent of a projectile, I guess. :/
Also, with such low densities/speeds, air friction will also become a major factor.

Kinetic Energy = 1/2*Mass*Velocity Squared
The adamantine hammer only has 1/34th of the kinetic energy at the same velocity, yes, but it does not need to move 34 times faster to direct 34 times as much kinetic energy, it only needs to move the root of 34 times faster, slightly less than 6 times, which is doable...once....probably.
I know it doesn't change your point in any way but I'd like to correct your mistake nonetheless. :)
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eux0r

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2949 on: November 19, 2011, 06:31:34 pm »

ok, i havent replied here for some time, so there are some things i want to say:
thx to whoever it was again who reminded me of dfterm, i havent had the time to test it yet, but its definitely worth a try. also changing the outputmode to text is awesome, but somehow ugly, even with the best fonts. i hope the guy who maintains dwarffortress in the archlinux repository also adds dfterm in the near future, since that would make my life much easier ;)

also, thanks to toady for answering those questions

on the brass-knuckles discussion: i think noone mentioned that those knuckles are not only very rigid, but also concentrate the force of a punch onto a thin line, which means something like 1/20th of the surface

warhammers: when attacking an unarmored human or dwarf it doesnt matter anymore if you have something incredibly undeformable like adamantium: steel doesnt deform the least bit when crushing some bones, therefore you wont get any benefits from adamantium

someone mentioned swinging around your whole body like warhammer(TM) goblin fanatics do to gain the speed necessary to compensate the lower mass, but thats not just really difficult to control, but absolutely useless in a real fight.
 yes olympic hammer-throwers do that, but they dont have to fight against someone and even those, who do that probably some hundred times a day when practising cant really control the direction they throw better than a 30°(or so i estimate) cone. i hope df never makes turning in circles _any_ viable in combat: its stupid, dont ever try that when fighting only because many games make you think its really strong. (yes i know, martial arts incorporate turning attacks, and some of my favorite moves we do in kung-fu training are spinning ones, but those only do _one_ turn and are allready much much harder to control and aim than the normal ones and you do them when you know its no problem to turn away from your enemy for a brief moment)

and one last thing for those who dont know yet: the designated color for questions is called limegreen, not just green, normal green is not that nice to read since the background is so dark(i like the dark background, bright letters on dark ground are far superior to the standard dark on white, pls dont misunderstand this statement!)
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O11O1

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2950 on: November 19, 2011, 11:46:27 pm »

With these new upgrades to the city systems, how close are we to having a 'Retire' option, where instead of abandoning the fort, you give it to the gameworld to control, allowing you to, say, start a new fort and trade with the old one?
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King_of_the_weasels

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2951 on: November 20, 2011, 01:33:24 am »

With these new upgrades to the city systems, how close are we to having a 'Retire' option, where instead of abandoning the fort, you give it to the gameworld to control, allowing you to, say, start a new fort and trade with the old one?

Probably not until after we have actual dwarf towns being generated, and then some.
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Sevi

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2952 on: November 20, 2011, 06:10:42 am »

Will silver bullets/arrows instantly kill werebeasts?  :D
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YetAnotherStupidDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2953 on: November 20, 2011, 06:14:12 am »

With these new upgrades to the city systems, how close are we to having a 'Retire' option, where instead of abandoning the fort, you give it to the gameworld to control, allowing you to, say, start a new fort and trade with the old one?
It is planned to have living world after halting worldgen. I suspect this will be just continuation of worldgen in background (so size of world starts to matter in fortress mode), only it will be affected by player decisions. And how close... um, few years?

Will silver bullets/arrows instantly kill werebeasts?  :D
If RNG gods will be kind. Material weakness are randomized.
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O11O1

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2954 on: November 20, 2011, 09:58:24 am »

With these new upgrades to the city systems, how close are we to having a 'Retire' option, where instead of abandoning the fort, you give it to the gameworld to control, allowing you to, say, start a new fort and trade with the old one?
It is planned to have living world after halting worldgen. I suspect this will be just continuation of worldgen in background (so size of world starts to matter in fortress mode), only it will be affected by player decisions. And how close... um, few years?

Will silver bullets/arrows instantly kill werebeasts?  :D
If RNG gods will be kind. Material weakness are randomized.


So we might have have werewolves weak to iron (but not steel). Or copper. Or Elephant Bone.

This is probably answered somewhere, so not gonna green it:
Is this limited to just weapon materials? If not, does that world grant our forges/workshops to make esoteric weapons for that purpose?
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