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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1163193 times)

MaskedMiner

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3210 on: December 07, 2011, 03:48:24 pm »

I find it annoying how he seems to think that we are just fanboys so arguing with us is useless. Its not like we have any reason to like this game at all  :P

Seriously, never argue with argument "Obviously you are biased, so your word can't be trusted!" Always counter the argument itself, if argument is bad then it can always be argued against.

Besides, doesn't this seem to be opinion thing anyway? I mean, if the "Cultists of Toady" don't mind the whole Alpha thing, then why can't we like it? If you don't like it, there is no need for you to try to stop us liking it xD
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irmo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3211 on: December 07, 2011, 03:54:23 pm »

He has multiple focuses, this is a very, very big game and he is NOT working on this right now. He's messing around with Adventure Mode and JUST LOOK THE THINGS HE PUT UP! Just look how the game has progressed since last version. Damn it.

The game has progressed not at all, because there hasn't been a release.

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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3212 on: December 07, 2011, 04:45:04 pm »

Do not feed the troll guys!

When someone thinks he has the right to complain, the trolls soon follow in his track.
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murlocdummy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3213 on: December 07, 2011, 05:51:30 pm »

I think it's a valid point to make to try and find out what kind of flaws we're going to have to deal with in the next release.  I don't think that many of us truly believe that the game is ever going to be playable to anyone that isn't part of the elite gaming community.  The bugfixes that Toady usually spends time with are the ones that interact with his own portion of the game, like ore placement, fluid connection algorithms, and stuff that's almost entirely under the hood.  The fact that we fans see any of that is undoubtedly by pure coincidence.

I'm pretty sure that even when the sewer system is released, it will only be half-finished, with each town having a completely non-functioning sewer system that's almost completely incapable of being explored by your adventurer, and by that time, Toady will already be working on warships to be released sometime in 2015.
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Caldfir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3214 on: December 07, 2011, 06:14:00 pm »

I don't think it is fair to look at it that way.  The first month or two after an update release is always when the majority of bugs get found and corrected.  Even Skyrim, a multi-million dollar undertaking, has had 3 patches since its release a month ago.  People will find problems, most of the things that aren't placeholders will get fixed up enough to be playable, and we'll have another stable release for a while.  I am not really certain what else could be expected. 
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irmo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3215 on: December 07, 2011, 06:15:24 pm »

This amuses me:

I find it annoying how he seems to think that we are just fanboys so arguing with us is useless.

Do not feed the troll guys!

When someone thinks he has the right to complain, the trolls soon follow in his track.
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Dsarker

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3216 on: December 07, 2011, 06:26:27 pm »

I don't think it is fair to look at it that way.  The first month or two after an update release is always when the majority of bugs get found and corrected.  Even Skyrim, a multi-million dollar undertaking, has had 3 patches since its release a month ago.  People will find problems, most of the things that aren't placeholders will get fixed up enough to be playable, and we'll have another stable release for a while.  I am not really certain what else could be expected.

Well, it's easy, isn't it? The game should be complete! After all, murlocdummy made a game in Flash, and that didn't take a year to do.
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murlocdummy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3217 on: December 07, 2011, 07:13:48 pm »

I don't think it is fair to look at it that way.  The first month or two after an update release is always when the majority of bugs get found and corrected.  Even Skyrim, a multi-million dollar undertaking, has had 3 patches since its release a month ago.  People will find problems, most of the things that aren't placeholders will get fixed up enough to be playable, and we'll have another stable release for a while.  I am not really certain what else could be expected.

Well, it's easy, isn't it? The game should be complete! After all, murlocdummy made a game in Flash, and that didn't take a year to do.

Did I ever hint at the idea of going back and fixing bugs was easy?  Of course not, nor did I ever try and make the case that the game should be totally complete.  I'm just saying that the game should be functional and entertaining, at least to a minimum degree.  The easy part is half-baking something, letting people have it, then forgetting about it and moving on.  The hard part is half-baking something, then going back over and baking it completely.

I'm not asking even that much out of Toady.  I just want him to put some cinnamon on that half-baked idea that he's giving us so it stops tasting like raw egg slime and dried batter clumps.  I'd like to see vampires, mummies, and war with other civilizations, but I don't want to get vampires that come out of specifically mummy-defined sarcophaguses, mummies sucking blood, or civilization wars that involve you having to micromanage your entire army just so that they don't starve to death in the middle of battle, dropping 45 food items all over their dead bodies, and causing the enemy to stop attacking you so that they can pick up the loot.

Is it so much to ask that Toady make it look like he's giving a minimal level of care for his work in his work?  He really needs to hire another programmer to help him out.  Maybe an intern or something.  I like how he's taken it upon himself to make DF his life's work and wants the donation rewards to make it seem like he's giving a personal gift to his contributors, but the real thank you gift that he can make is to make the game properly palatable to its users.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 07:27:12 pm by murlocdummy »
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Jiri Petru

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3218 on: December 07, 2011, 07:27:25 pm »

murlocdummy, you should really move this discussion to this thread. That's where it  belongs, people won't complain about you posting there.

Also, trying to guess upcoming bugs is pointless. You're forgetting that the game's main issue aren't bugs but user-unfriendliness - interface, micromanagement, tedium etc. You got it right in your rant, don't get sidetracked by bugs.

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Eктωρ

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3219 on: December 07, 2011, 07:28:47 pm »

Dude, the version isn't even out yet. How can you complain about bugs of a release you haven't played?
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3220 on: December 07, 2011, 07:31:23 pm »

I don't think it is fair to look at it that way.  The first month or two after an update release is always when the majority of bugs get found and corrected.  Even Skyrim, a multi-million dollar undertaking, has had 3 patches since its release a month ago.  People will find problems, most of the things that aren't placeholders will get fixed up enough to be playable, and we'll have another stable release for a while.  I am not really certain what else could be expected.

Well, it's easy, isn't it? The game should be complete! After all, murlocdummy made a game in Flash, and that didn't take a year to do.

Did I ever hint at the idea of going back and fixing bugs was easy?  Of course not, nor did I ever try and make the case that the game should be totally complete.  I'm just saying that the game should be functional and entertaining, at least to a minimum degree.  The easy part is half-baking something, letting people have it, then forgetting about it and moving on.  The hard part is half-baking something, then going back over and baking it completely.

I'm not asking even that much out of Toady.  I just want him to put some cinnamon on that half-baked idea that he's giving us so it stops tasting like raw egg slime and dried batter clumps.  I'd like to see vampires, mummies, and war with other civilizations, but I don't want to get vampires that come out of specifically mummy-defined sarcophaguses, mummies sucking blood, or civilization wars that involve you having to micromanage your entire army just so that they don't starve to death in the middle of battle, dropping 45 food items all over their dead bodies, and causing the enemy to stop attacking you so that they can pick up the loot.

Is it so much to ask that Toady make it look like he's giving a minimal level of care for his work in his work?  I like how he's taken it upon himself to make DF his life's work and wants the donation rewards to make it seem like he's giving a personal gift to his contributors, but the real thank you gift that he can make is to make the game properly palatable to its users.
His continued steady stream of donations, suggest that the game is palatable to its users.  Its ongoing progress, steady userbase, and exposure also suggest, that for an game, thats you say, is in an unplayable state, is played a quite a fair bit.

Part of the reason why this release took longer, was for the so called, cinnamon, is being added to the release. The expansion of the night creatures, sewers, crypts, mummies ect, is to make the new towns/cities, actually be worth something. From the Dev Log, it appears that the towns, without such side tracking, would have been pretty empty and boring, and probably would have undermined the release entirely.

ToadyOne does do bug fixes. About half the releases so far for DF, are just bug fixes, and all the release, minus the first one, contain bug fixes.

With as much activity as the forum has, with its steady stream of new users coming on here, with community forts games still happening, ect, that the game is fun and entertaining.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3221 on: December 07, 2011, 10:47:51 pm »

I would like to reiterate that these daily devlogs are pretty great.  Also, adventurer thirst confirmed in addition to hunger -- awesome.

The bugfixes that Toady usually spends time with are the ones that interact with his own portion of the game, like ore placement, fluid connection algorithms, and stuff that's almost entirely under the hood.  The fact that we fans see any of that is undoubtedly by pure coincidence.

Welp, this is where you segued from pessimism into being blatantly wrong.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 11:03:51 pm by Footkerchief »
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EmeraldWind

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3222 on: December 07, 2011, 11:10:26 pm »

Quote
Well, I would have gotten to the trading interface, but a bridge opened a hole to the underworld instead. Again.

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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3223 on: December 07, 2011, 11:11:28 pm »

Yeah, in my experience Toady works on the bugs that people bug him about most frequently and that are most apparent. I think.
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Kogut

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3224 on: December 07, 2011, 11:58:44 pm »

Yeah, in my experience Toady works on the bugs that people bug him about most frequently and that are most apparent. I think.
I decided to check this (poll).

BTW, as the thread is derailed: Thanks for bugfixes! And working on interface (the best feature in planned version is reworking "cannot follow orders").
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