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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 646625 times)

zwei

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2205 on: September 21, 2011, 07:05:28 am »

I read that there's gonna be immortality, possibility for both players and NPC's.

The question is are they still vulnerable somehow? Do they die by decapitation?

If so, the first swordsman Im gonna make in that version is so gonna be immortal, and he will hunt down the rest of them, because in the end....

Immortality rarely means unkillable.

Indded, It usually means removal of aging (and rapid aging to death if immortality is stripped)

Considering some of the interactions are said to completely heal you....

Those can be two different secrets...

Besides, I can see pretty much every adventurer of the note to eventually become immortal werewolf necromancer.

I was assuming he meant the healing one, not necessarily the eternal life one.

I didnt actually think there was a difference. Besides, what good is of immortality to player character if its only age related? I dont think many have spend in-game years in adventure mode.

On the other hand, historical figures can find it usefull. As can dwarves in dwarf mode. Enough time to watch pyramids grow and whatnot.

Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2206 on: September 21, 2011, 07:12:37 am »

Werebeasts are the ones that heal completely, and only when they transform (which they currently only do on the full moon, and can't control).
Necromancers are the ones that achieve immortality (though the first werebeast of a type might stick around). They'll still be as allergic to sudden weapon exposure as before per the devlog, though they'll have several layers of undead around them before that happens (and potentially other tricks).
Whether vampires can transform hasn't been actually revealed yet, to the best of my knowledge, though it was a goal. Even then, the transformation ought to be more of an escape chance than a quick heal (especially as transforming creatures lose their stuff).

Besides, what good is of immortality to player character if its only age related? I dont think many have spend in-game years in adventure mode.
Retire the immortal, play a long fortress with a mass of artifacts, then take over the fortress with your army of zombies and ghouls once the fortress inevitably falls. Then, rule the world (Okay, parts of this may have to wait).
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Johuotar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2207 on: September 21, 2011, 07:16:34 am »

Even in dwarf mode immortality doesn't matter much. How many dorfs have you lost to old age? I've lost one. Immortality's only real effect is that few important historical figures will be alive when the game starts and can lead siege or something. Immortality is not even rare since all elfs and gobbos are already immortal. It's still neat little thing to add flavour and something to achieve.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2208 on: September 21, 2011, 08:19:10 am »

Quote
Whether vampires can transform hasn't been actually revealed yet, to the best of my knowledge, though it was a goal.

They have vermin transformation.

Quote
Immortality is not even rare since all elfs and gobbos are already immortal

True, immortality is quite common. Megabeasts and Semimegabeasts are also, to my knowledge at least, immortal. Along with quite a few other creatures.

Mind you, I highly suspect some of them won't be immortal once proper breeding is implimented.
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penguify

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2209 on: September 21, 2011, 01:26:12 pm »

Well, since the afterlife is going in (eventually), presumably getting out will be going in too. Assuming it's possible to get out without outside intervention, then adventurers (once they're strong enough to fight their way out every time, assuming that's one of the ways to escape) will all have type IV immortality.

Edit in:
Could you upload the example interaction folder early, so modders can get acquainted with it sooner?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:22:23 pm by penguify »
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2210 on: September 21, 2011, 08:20:32 pm »

Books!  Maybe not the full capacity of books that we wanted, but still... books!

What can you "learn" from books?  How does one learn to read?
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2211 on: September 21, 2011, 08:35:18 pm »

How is the content of books determined?
Is there a variety of subjects/genres?
Can the player write as well as read?
Do they show up any place other than necromancer towers?
Can books be made in dwarf mode?
Are books on the short list for recreational items when the tavern/inn update comes?



Whee books! Half these questions will probably be obsolete in a day or two, but still, gotta ask!

Hiiri

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2212 on: September 21, 2011, 09:25:48 pm »

Ahhah I love this. The release was supposed to be just "large towns with maps", and then one thing leads to another.
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EmeraldWind

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2213 on: September 21, 2011, 11:02:02 pm »

Man, by the time this is released there will be so much new content to enjoy.
Cities, new night creatures, sewers, catacombs, temples, monuments, even books.
I certainly going to take a stab at some of these new features and I can wait to see the rest.

You know, that bit about books really got me thinking. Someday in this game it might be possible
to walk into a library and start reading around for info on treasures, hidden locations, and creatures.

In your studies, you travel far and wide to the libraries of all the major cities. One day, you read a
book of fairy tales that tells about a town you are familiar with and how an artifact of great power
was hidden there long ago. You slowly begin to find similar tales, some that expand the story, some
that twist it, and other that embellish it. Eventually, you track down a version of the story with more
details and use it to track down the artifact.

Something, like this might be possible someday. I mean the game already keeps track of historical events.
Once people can write, sing, and tell fictional stories, they can incorporate history in the tales. Since there
is already plans for more personalities, the changes made to a historical account can be based on the
story-teller's preferences. In example, the artifact might be a wooden amulet, but someone might like gold and
decide a golden amulet is better for the story. (Though I guess it could just as easily be changed to a wooden
cabinet by the right person.) 

The day DF is capable of that, will be a fine day indeed. I mean the game can already put together interesting
stories, but just think of what it might someday be capable of is astounding.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2214 on: September 22, 2011, 12:24:37 am »

That sort of thing is why "Writing" is under the Treasure Hunter section on the dev pages.  Should be cool when we finally do that stuff.

Quote from: Mephansteras
I've been wondering what your idea of a Hill Dwarf settlement is. Do you have a specific idea in mind right now for what those settlements will look like, or is that something you haven't really gotten too far into thinking about yet? The dwarven ability to combine above and below ground aspects seems like it lends itself to a lot of variation.

Yeah, and hill dwarf is just a name, since the settlements external to your fort will also possibly include deep groups you've sent to colonize the underground layers which could be massively cave-adapted and somewhat alien, in addition to others along the mountains rather than in lower-lying lands.  We don't really have specific images in mind though.  For the low-lying ones, we don't want it to end up human, but we don't want it to exactly be hobbity either, since that would be sort of a hack job.  Perhaps most of their farming would still be underground, as odd and disrespectful of the sun as that is.  I'm not sure what the main restrictions are...  that it can't be more fortressy than your fort, I suppose, although it could be more wally.

Quote from: Mephansteras
With adventurer sites, are we going to see people building their own homes/shops/farms/etc? Or is it going to end up like fortress mode, where the player designates everything and then the people go and do the work?

If they do end up building their own stuff, will that eventually be an option in fortress mode? It'd be interesting, especially as the fortress gets larger and the player is focused more on world/army stuff, to be able to give your dwarves a lot more autonomy.

I'm not sure on the specifics, but we're aiming for it not to be like fortress mode, since we have that.  Ideally, it would feel like you fill whatever role you actually fill.  So if it's your place to order somebody to do something, you can do it, but that doesn't mean they have to do it.  We'll have to concede ground to game stuff, but that's the idea.  Since you start from nothing, presumably, they could end up with more freedom than the preexisting sites, since things need to be built.  I'm not sure about fortress mode either.  We had just started on that back in the beginning, with the shops, where they'd pick the type of shop and buy inventories for them and then sell them (however that's supposed to work with the whatever the economy was).  It's something to think about with the upcoming taverns there.  Should they be able to set those up, or do their own room furniture?  There are styles of play that will undoubtedly conflict there.

Quote from: jimi12
So Toady, what else do you plan on implementing before this release is over?

The last big question regards the night creatures we didn't get to.  Stalkers and constructed undead, new ghosts and animated furniture and things.  It's not clear what'll happen there.  I'm going to continue on with the things that need to happen, and we'll see later on if I put any of those in.  It's hard to say how I'll feel about it then.  Releasing would be good, but I won't know until I get there.

Quote from: Dienes
Is there any plan to have undead scale with the power of the necromancer?

Eventually it'll be a full magic system with a whole lot of scaling sort of things and tweaks and specific personalized alterations to effects and various coolness, but for now it is utterly dull.

Quote from: Dienes
And will there be any way to connect interactions to something like a crafted item type or building type?

It isn't currently there.  As a generalized magic system, it's definitely supposed to touch upon all of that, but it hasn't done so yet.  It's a time/priority thing as usual.

Quote from: erissian
Is it possible to drag a dwarf and everything on them to a corpse stockpile before looting their body for socks? Could it be treated like a special case of moving an injured dwarf? Can properly buried dwarfs be raised?

Nothing has changed so that's not possible.  The hope sometime is to get that done, but it invites a horror of bugs.  If a necromancer gets a tile-wise line of sight on a body, including those in your coffins, then the body can be raised.  I think because the body becomes a unit, a ghost probably won't additionally be disturbed, but once you knock out the zombie...  I'm not sure.  It would physically match the old dwarf in id, and so possibly excite a ghost, but it wouldn't have the right historical or unit id, so maybe not.  Probably not...

Quote from: Darthhaha
Is it possible for an Interaction to add someone into an entity, for Vampire Civilisations and such

There isn't an effect like that right now.

Quote from: Willfor
Are there plans to complete the XML dump in the near future, or is this a very low priority?

I generally add some things to the dump each time, but sitting down and completely it entirely in one go has associated snags so it hasn't happened.  There will be more done for next time, but holes as well.

Quote from: Dr. D
For a question, will there be more mundane problems in cities for adventurers to take care of, such as the ever-popular dwarf mode task of dealing with as swarm of feral cats?

As the life of people becomes more complicated, this will be more natural, but right now they don't have lives.  Once they have life goals etc. from the personality rewrite, we'll be at the starting point of one of our overarching conceptual goals, which is to allow you to pick out a person or family and help them indefinitely, as a sort of proof-of-dynamic-world thing, even if it is a strange thing to do.  That still wouldn't necessarily get at the mundane side of life, but it would be related.

Quote from: Greendogo
Will the following ever be possible?: Your adventurer and his companions are taken captive and sold to a slave caravan transporting them deep underground to the caverns for days, joining in with the other inmates and captured subterranean folk to fight off attacking underground monsters while the evil goblins and dwarves who captured you bet on survivors, finally ending your trek in a deep slavery trade depot, whereupon non-player characters are sold for hard labor and the player character must somewhere along the way devise his escape.

There are precursor elements for that in world gen and you can find slaves in adventure mode that came about from world gen.  Natural extensions of these systems would involve the player in whatever way, but as with everything, it currently sits as it sits.

Quote from: Halconnen
On the topic of wrestling, especially with the prospect of zombies getting iron grips, are there any plans on making the grapples generally more detailed? I sort of had to imagine a particularily brawny (mass advantage?) adventurer just going and dragging zombies latched onto him along if he cannot break their grips. Perhaps to intentionally haul himself (and the latched zombiepile) off of a cliff while praying in order to get out of that situation.

Yeah, there are a slew of dev things on wrestling, and dragging was in there.  Combat arcish, whenever that happens.

Quote from: Cruxador
How exactly does the syndrome and/or interactions involved in drinking vampire blood work? How much of that process is part of the interaction system itself?
And on a related note: How would an adventurer learn about the properties that a certain vampire type would have? Will there usually be enough information for an adventurer to make a decision dealing with whether he wants to drink the blood or not?

It's all the interaction system.  The blood is linked to the historical figure, and the historical figure has a syndrome that carries body transformation information.  There is no vampire creature definition, so there are no new materials, so it has to run a trace essentially when you eat any material attached to a specific being.  If it loses the connection as it sometimes does between historical figure and generic creature, then the blood would just be, say, "human blood" and have no transformation capability.

The notes up online had things about entity groups that would tell you about vampire capabilities and so on, but we didn't do that, so there isn't much of anything now.  Of course, there isn't much variety now either, so it doesn't matter much.

Quote from: Rockphed
Currently dwarves in fortress mode will carry other dwarves who are injured to their beds or a hospital.  What obstacles stop invaders and adventurers from carrying comrades?

Time and priority, same as everything.  Nothing really consequential.  I guess the invaders need to give a crap about anything before they'd do that.

Quote
Quote from: NobodyPro
I couldn't help but notice that gremlins (only creature with the [MISCHEVIOUS] tag) have a maximum of 1 per (season/year/area?).
Would this count as a bug, a leftover from previous versions or intentional design?
Quote from: Untelligent
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]

That determines the overall population, which isn't really important, rather than the attack rate.  Was it something else?

Quote from: jimi12
How urgent is the need for a vampire to feed? Will they starve to death or grow weaker if they don't feed for a long time? Or is it more like a somemthing they are just driven to do without any real benefits to themselves other than filling their bloodlust?

Nothing special yet.

Quote from: caknuck
If flammable objects (cloth, wood furniture, booze, hair, etc...) catch fire, do they eventually exhaust their fuel and leave a "bar" of ash behind? Or do they burn indefinitely like the "bin o' flaming lignite" of the past?

Nothing has changed about this, but a lot of objects have always burned and disappeared, rather than leaving something or burning forever.  It's all still the same.  It's just the firebreath/fireball effect that has changed.

Quote from: EveryZig
So if creatures can breathe items, can you can make a ballista-beast that shoots like an actual ballista, or does item-breath just drop the items at the target's location?

It's not that versatile, but more might end up happening.

Quote from: LordDemon
Is there/will there be some sort of panic mode for them[creatures on fire], so that they would dive into water/roll on ground to put out the fire?

I suppose that has been sitting on the back burner for years, and it hasn't been moving either.

Quote from: penguify
Are severs regrown when regaining original form?

And will the healing behavior be controllable (via modding) later on, once wounds are saved?

Yeah, the body is currently rebuilt.  Hard to say what'll be possible later.  Any change will be in the raws, anyway.

Quote from: EveryZig
Will legendary combat skills make for tougher werebeasts?

The generalized fighting skills as well as the biting and grasp attack style skills will all be used, as the soul is the same.  An adventurer could also pick up their weapon as it stands.

Quote from: EveryZig
How will supply and demand effect / not effect created/displayed wealth?

Dunno yet.  It's definitely something that'll need to be addressed though, since the numbers will all become fluid/meaningless.

Quote
Quote from: kaypy
If someone gives birth while under were-transformation, what do they give birth to?
Quote from: Knight Otu
Given that were-creatures are apparently implemented as a separate creature definition that lacks any kind of caste and gender, and that only female can give birth, I'd expect that this can't actually happen, and that existing pregnancies are postponed until after the transformation. If for some reason a werebeast does manage to give birth (perhaps through modding), I'd expect the child to be a full-fledged beast type without a human (dwarf, goblin, kobold) side.

If I recollect, it'll remove any pregnancy where the gender variable doesn't match when the pregnancy is ready to go.  If not, then yeah, it'll be born as a pure werewolf without any transformation back.  Hmm...  unless I transferred the birth race variable directly, in which case the baby would be born as a werewolf and then immediately and permanently transform back into a human/dwarf/etc.  In any case, testing/handling pregnancy was one of the notes in the vampire section.

Quote
Quote from: TheChosen
I read that there's gonna be immortality, possibility for both players and NPC's.

The question is are they still vulnerable somehow? Do they die by decapitation?
Quote from: thvaz
Immortality rarely means unkillable.

It stops aging and adds a few other random effects.  Decapitation and bifurcation are always lethal to the living, whatever syndrome they have.  It won't always be that way, I think, although in the case of decapitation there's the tricky question of whether the soul goes with the head or the body.  If you want the thing where the guy walks over and puts his head back on, you kind of want the soul to still be in control of both units, which isn't currently supported at all by the framework.  Maybe just being in the most mobile one is crucial, but then the head couldn't grimace and stuff.

Quote
Quote from: Fieari
What can you "learn" from books?  How does one learn to read?
Quote from: monk12
How is the content of books determined?
Is there a variety of subjects/genres?
Can the player write as well as read?
Do they show up any place other than necromancer towers?
Can books be made in dwarf mode?
Are books on the short list for recreational items when the tavern/inn update comes?

It's way too early, but I'll give the current answers, as unsatisfactory as that is.  You can pick the reading skill now from character generation, and that says whether or not you can read.  Unlike other skills (because there isn't anything like long-term training at this time), you can't learn to read later.  The content is determined by what the author in world gen knows, and that isn't all that much.  Right now the necromancers are the only writers, and they don't even have decent skills -- just their secret knowledge.  Not sure when that'll change.  Players cannot yet write, and I haven't done anything in dwarf mode.  I'm not sure when or where they are going to come in to other places.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 01:22:01 am by Toady One »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2215 on: September 22, 2011, 12:41:53 am »

Thanks again for answering our questions Toady

I am also surprised I was write about a few of the questions I answered...  :o
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2216 on: September 22, 2011, 01:22:39 am »

Well you have shops and caravans. You could have the traders write down theyr dayli stuff like the inventory, theyr current Money and estimated wins. History would work too.

Anywaythank again for the answer post.
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2217 on: September 22, 2011, 02:28:30 am »

I wouldn't mind if the night creatures still not implemented get postponed for a later release, to be honest.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2218 on: September 22, 2011, 02:35:12 am »

Quote from: Dr. D
For a question, will there be more mundane problems in cities for adventurers to take care of, such as the ever-popular dwarf mode task of dealing with as swarm of feral cats?

As the life of people becomes more complicated, this will be more natural, but right now they don't have lives.  Once they have life goals etc. from the personality rewrite, we'll be at the starting point of one of our overarching conceptual goals, which is to allow you to pick out a person or family and help them indefinitely, as a sort of proof-of-dynamic-world thing, even if it is a strange thing to do.  That still wouldn't necessarily get at the mundane side of life, but it would be related.
It would make sense to perpetually help a family if it was your own family. Once adventurers are more directly related to the world that seems like something that more than a few folks would want to do.
And it would make sense to become a knight in service to a king, and one could see relationships of that nature coming up with other people too. So in that situation you'd have a certain lineage that you are somewhat obligated to serve, though of course that obligation could be limited and it would be possible to ignore your obligation and run off somewhere.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: kaypy
If someone gives birth while under were-transformation, what do they give birth to?
Quote from: Knight Otu
Given that were-creatures are apparently implemented as a separate creature definition that lacks any kind of caste and gender, and that only female can give birth, I'd expect that this can't actually happen, and that existing pregnancies are postponed until after the transformation. If for some reason a werebeast does manage to give birth (perhaps through modding), I'd expect the child to be a full-fledged beast type without a human (dwarf, goblin, kobold) side.

If I recollect, it'll remove any pregnancy where the gender variable doesn't match when the pregnancy is ready to go.  If not, then yeah, it'll be born as a pure werewolf without any transformation back.  Hmm...  unless I transferred the birth race variable directly, in which case the baby would be born as a werewolf and then immediately and permanently transform back into a human/dwarf/etc.  In any case, testing/handling pregnancy was one of the notes in the vampire section.
That first possibility seems way cooler.

I wouldn't mind if the night creatures still not implemented get postponed for a later release, to be honest.
Same. We have enough night creatures to make the upcoming release very interesting in that regard; we don't need more to play with there for a fair while. On the other hand, I'd like to see a lot more done with the books. At least set up non-necromancer authors and bookshops in cities, even if we don't get a full system in a player-controlled situation yet.
Libraries would be a cool bonus and are a part of what this release is supposed to be about, so that would be cool too, but depending on how Toady thinks those should work it might be a lot of work.
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Dsarker

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2219 on: September 22, 2011, 02:53:33 am »

From what it appears, books can teach interactions, but apparently not skills.


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