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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 677079 times)

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2250 on: September 24, 2011, 12:46:02 am »

Six months isn't so bad.
It's not bad compared to the 18-month release, but it's still not good.
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Rip0k

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2251 on: September 24, 2011, 03:08:05 am »

i dunno when i'm working on a thing outside input helps a lot

in the end, it's Toady's decision, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't express their views

personally, i'd prefer if the other night creatures were left for a later release. this release seems more than complete even without them, and it has dragged on for a while. i don't mind that much either way, though.

True, but as to expressing one's views. Some people out here seem to rather express their inner child's point of view. Something like: "I wanna dessert before dinner, or else I'm gonna grumble all day" factor.

I have complete confidence in Toady's competence.
 Peace.
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Sanure

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2252 on: September 24, 2011, 07:50:13 am »

It stops aging and adds a few other random effects.  Decapitation and bifurcation are always lethal to the living, whatever syndrome they have.  It won't always be that way, I think, although in the case of decapitation there's the tricky question of whether the soul goes with the head or the body.  If you want the thing where the guy walks over and puts his head back on, you kind of want the soul to still be in control of both units, which isn't currently supported at all by the framework.  Maybe just being in the most mobile one is crucial, but then the head couldn't grimace and stuff.

My questions:
1. Could the head be used like a phylactery keeping the body alive and making it resistant to death?
2. If phylacteries are possible, will it be possible to transfer your life energy into the chosen item and become a lich?
3. Will an undead be able to re-attach body parts he or she has lost thru an interaction or will this be near impossible?
4. Would it be possible for when an adventure dies to be transported to the land of the dead? This of course would only be his soul, and not his body and items, which would lead to some interesting situations, and would give one way to become an undead.

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keenerd

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2253 on: September 24, 2011, 08:26:57 am »

Quote from: erissian
Can properly buried dwarfs be raised?

Quote from: Toady One
If a necromancer gets a tile-wise line of sight on a body, including those in your coffins, then the body can be raised.  I think because the body becomes a unit, a ghost probably won't additionally be disturbed, but once you knock out the zombie...  I'm not sure.  It would physically match the old dwarf in id, and so possibly excite a ghost, but it wouldn't have the right historical or unit id, so maybe not.  Probably not...

Having ghosts come back from your raised and re-slain dead would be awesome.  Firstly because very few fictional zombie universes ever show respect for the dead.  Reburying the zombie corpses seems like a natural thing to do.  Secondly, because it adds an element of balance.  Otherwise players will pull the magma lever to their crypt without hesitation.  Thirdly, dealing with ghosts after putting down zombies sounds more Fun.

Will we ever have to bury the dead in adventure mode, to avoid overrunning the countryside with ghosts?  I can see villagers giving mundane starter quests of the nature "I found a dozen bodies about two hours walk from here.  Probably from a bandit attack.  But I am too busy farming, could you give them proper burials before it is too late?"

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zwei

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2254 on: September 24, 2011, 10:34:26 am »

Peace.

Consider that this sub-topic evloved from

"Guys, i might delay some features"
"Fine by me, go ahead"

to quite astonishing

"childish people want to micromanage toady for their own selfish needs."

It should rest in peace.

Evil One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2255 on: September 24, 2011, 12:34:22 pm »

Now I don't know if this has been dicussed before (I'm not sure what to search for) and it'd probably require recoding of some of the inventory system (especially regarding NPCs), but instead of making corpses as containers, make it so that a corpse actually counts as a [DEAD] tagged creature IE it cannot move or do anything, the NPCs ignore it as dead, but it also doesn't drop all of its items so when re-animated it changes the [DEAD] tag to [ZOMBIE] or [SKELETON] and allows it to move and do stuff whilst keeping all of its equipment.

Essentially turning [DEAD] creatures into untargetable, unconscious creatures that slowly rot, till they reach a certain point whereupon they cease to be [DEAD] NPCs and turn into just left over parts as they do now.

This'd allow for fully armoured zombies and skeletons as well as meaning that fortress mode Dorfs can drag a body inside the fortress and then loot it.

It'd certainly make the necromancers more fearsome and allow nobles and other high-ranking dorfs to be buried with their equipment.

Just an idea.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 08:42:50 am by Evil One »
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ShoesandHats

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2256 on: September 24, 2011, 02:56:22 pm »

Will there be any kind of mixing and matching system in necromancy? For example, if you have several limbs from different creatures, could you make an octo-tiger-man-zombie? It'd be pretty awesome, but I don't know if it would be possible or overpowered.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2257 on: September 24, 2011, 03:26:46 pm »

Will there be any kind of mixing and matching system in necromancy? For example, if you have several limbs from different creatures, could you make an octo-tiger-man-zombie? It'd be pretty awesome, but I don't know if it would be possible or overpowered.
No. As DF Talk 14 notes, that would be pretty much the pinnacle of the constructed undead, but it would necessitate a large update of the body system.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2258 on: September 24, 2011, 03:28:04 pm »

Will there be any kind of mixing and matching system in necromancy? For example, if you have several limbs from different creatures, could you make an octo-tiger-man-zombie? It'd be pretty awesome, but I don't know if it would be possible or overpowered.
No. As DF Talk 14 notes, that would be pretty much the pinnacle of the constructed undead, but it would necessitate a large update of the body system.

Yep and that update would take over a month. While polled most people were against the idea of having a month be devoted to the update.
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freeformschooler

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2259 on: September 24, 2011, 04:12:52 pm »

Though, I can see that being the kind of thing that would be in eventually, down the line. It would certainly be awesome.
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piecewise

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2260 on: September 24, 2011, 07:54:37 pm »

Would you mind showing us an example of one of the books in the game? Like, just pick one up from a necromancer tower and tell us what it says.

I'm curious what the barely conscious ai wrote about.

malvado

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2261 on: September 24, 2011, 08:21:52 pm »

Any chance future releases will be more update compatible? Ie additional features could be added to the existing world you are playing in kinda like an software patch?

Btw great work oh Toady one, really worth the wait considering all that is going to be included in the next big release ^_^
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2262 on: September 24, 2011, 08:33:27 pm »

Quote from: devlog
broke the "Cannot follow order" message for soldiers into about a dozen hopefully helpful messages.

Thank goodness! Hopefully this is the first step in getting some of those bugs fixed as well, in the upcoming bughunting release. And good to hear the zombies are a bit beefier, as well. They've always been kind of pathetic (apart from that brief period where they were nigh-invulnerable, anyway) and I normally avoid zombie areas. Hopefully this facelift will make them worth the challenge.

EmeraldWind

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2263 on: September 24, 2011, 10:50:54 pm »

Will zombies continue to rot until they become skeletons or does their rotting stop once they are raised?
Are there any differences between skeletons and zombies other than the lack of tissue and organs?
How will the raise the dead interaction mesh with other interactions? For example, will were-creatures still transform?


I've seen questions about the interaction combinations between vampire were-creatures, but not about the raising interaction.

Plus, while I think a raised necromancer loses his ability to raise once dead due to the loss of his soul, were-creature interactions might be applied to the body for all I know.
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YetAnotherStupidDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2264 on: September 25, 2011, 05:48:42 am »

Any chance future releases will be more update compatible?
Exactly zero chance.
It is not like you are forced to use new version. You can finish up your old fortress with old version and later start new fortress in new version. Really.

EDIT:
While seems like vanishing zombies was fixed... do zombies still have HP? I seen no clear declaration about removing that placeholder fix.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 06:32:42 am by YetAnotherStupidDorf »
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