Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 258 259 [260] 261 262 ... 298

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 516777 times)

Remuthra

  • Bay Watcher
  • I live once more...
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3885 on: January 21, 2012, 08:00:21 pm »

thanks  :D

ShoesandHats

  • Bay Watcher
  • Shoes cancels Drink: Intensified by Penguin Man.
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3886 on: January 21, 2012, 08:18:20 pm »

Would you ever consider adding a somewhat creepy aspect to some parts of the game? For example, maybe you would find ghosts in abandoned fortresses? They might move furniture when you aren't looking. I can't think of any other examples, but I think it would make the game a bit more fun. Imagine walking in a cave, in which you have found nothing, when suddenly a strange character moves up behind you. You examine it, and it provides a very vague, riddle-like description of it. You take a swing at it, and it disappears. You start going back, but you swear that the entrance was a little bit more to the left.
Logged

Toady One

  • The Great
    • View Profile
    • http://www.bay12games.com
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3887 on: January 21, 2012, 09:22:21 pm »

Thanks to Footkerchief, MrWiggles, Knight Otu and anybody I missed for helping with questions this time.

Quote from: Kogut
So it is possible to find vampires by creating bedrooms, without assigning. Wait. Dwarves without claimed ones are vampires. Is it a intended behaviour? Maybe vampire also should claim bedrooms? Or maybe it is somehow predicted but not mentioned.

I don't think I handled that.  Keep 'em coming, he he he.  It'll be an arms race for a while as we patch up stuff I didn't cover.

Quote from: Cruxador
As far as stray populations go, I saw a documentary on the feral dogs of East St. Lewis not too long ago. Despite blood tests indicating different breed mixes, they were all medium-sized dogs with black coats and pointed ears.

I think I made my comment because of something similar I saw or read about the dogs around Mexico City.

Quote from: Vattic
With fairly large towns being in the next release are there plans to have certain non-domestic animals appear in and under them? Rats, pigeons, and cockroaches being some of the obvious ones. Perhaps new BIOME tokens are in order?
...
can we get things to spawn in sewers, dungeons, catacombs, and above ground in cities specifically using biome like tokens perhaps?

Yeah, we'll probably need to get something like that together, although it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in world gen -- I wonder if it'll need to model a conversion from wild populations to city populations, since the cities don't exist in advance and I don't like the idea of spontaneously generating city creatures if it isn't necessary/thematic.  Sort of the opposite of that feral dog thing, but we won't generally have as much time in world gen as critters had from through history.

Quote from: SuicideJunkie
When the shopkeepers start calling out to sell their wares, will they also shout out a warning if they see you're about to leave without paying?

I haven't added anything along those lines.  You do deserve a little slack, but they don't give it to you yet.

Quote
Quote from: EmeraldWind
NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN - I noticed this tag in a couple of the entries in the new interaction based nightcreatures. Does it prevent future Attribute gains for the creature?
Quote from: Knight Otu
It certainly sounds like it does that. It does seem a bit weird that necromancers and vampires would have that tag, but the presence of that tag could be randomized.

Yeah, it locks attributes in place.  For some reason, I didn't imagine vampires being able to lift weights and load themselves out.  I dunno if that'll be randomized in the future.  As a general note, you can zero out the number of random vampires and use the example vampire to make your own work how you want.  I'm not sure when we're going to have parameters for how the randomization actually works.  I think the current plan was to do that first with random dragons, but I'm not sure what the format is going to be.

Quote from: EmeraldWind
IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:WERECURSE-
IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:VAMPCURSE-
IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:DISTURBANCE_CURSE- I also noticed these. Last time it was asked, you mentioned that different curses could possibly overlap, but these tags seem to imply otherwise. Has this changed or is this just the case for the example creatures?

It's also the case with the random ones.  I don't recall exactly what the reasoning was.  It could just be the world gen AI going goofy or something.  It's the kind of restriction I wouldn't mind relaxing, but there was some stumbling block or another.

Quote
Quote from: EmeraldWind
Will the examples actually be in the raw folder to be generated in a world or will we just get the randomized interactions/creatures?
Quote from: Knight Otu
I'm pretty sure Toady mentioned that the example file is in a separate folder, and thus wouldn't be used by the game - just the randomized interactions.

Yeah, it's just the randomized ones, but you can use the examples to make your own and turn the random ones off if you want.  If you leave the random ones on it'll still use any reactions you move over or otherwise add to the raw/objects folder in addition to the random ones.

Quote from: EmeraldWind
How do werebeasts determine to ignore similar werebeasts? Do they just check the other creature's current form, do they look at the underlying syndrome for the same syndrome, look at the creature definition the syndrome references, or some other way?

Creatures that have "CRAZED" will attack anybody that isn't their race, and all of the werebeasts are generated with it.  There isn't currently a way to make them attack everybody or analyze syndromes.

Quote
Quote from: Knight Otu
I noticed that all of the tags added in the samples don't have parameters - is that true of all tags that can be added via syndromes, or are there some tags that allow parameters (such as the CHILD tag)?
Quote from: Footkerchief
The equivalent tag from creature variations, CV_NEW_TAG, allows parameters.  Hopefully the implementation is the same.

The tags in CE_ADD_TAG are parameterless.  Appearance modifiers and material force modifiers are creature tags which also have their own CE tags, rather than being used in CE_ADD_TAG (you can see them in the vampire def).  I was thinking at the time that CE_ADD_TAG would be a convenient place to throw in lots and lots of simple tags all at once, while retaining the single START/PEAK/END/etc. info used by syndromes, and complicated tags would have their own format, especially if the tag has a variable length parameter list (like a color modifier, which you can't do yet).  CV_NEW_TAG alters the raw text before it is even processed, where CE_ADD_TAG has to deal with a creature def that is a processed raw through a unit that has already processed the creature def.  Various optimizations are already in place, so it can't alter the text directly.  I'm not sure if it's better to stop processing multiple tags and treat it exactly like creature raws, because that would really lengthen the syndrome raws (you'd have to deal with a zillion START/PEAK/END/etcs or globalize to groups of tags or something) and there might be cases where a syndrome would want a very different parameter list than the creature uses (so making them use an assumed identical format would add confusion, although having things live outside CE_ADD_TAG is also confusing).  This and the whole interaction system is certainly subject to suggestions.

In general, regarding the addition of existing creature tags to the syndromes, due to the creature raws already being processed by the time the syndromes alter a critter on-the-fly (placing two levels of formating/optimization between a specific unit and its text definition), making syndrome tags from creature tags isn't always simple to support, which is part of why the growing of the magic system will be a gradual process.

Quote
Quote from: Mr Frog
Is it/will it be possible for a single interaction to have multiple targets/means of selecting targets? For example, could I mod in an interaction that paralyzes a target on line-of-sight, but makes the caster dizzy/drowsy as a sort of backlash?
Quote from: Footkerchief
It looks like interactions are set up to allow multiple targets with different effects for each.  However, I'm not sure how an interaction would be made self-targeting.  Shot in the dark, but maybe SELF instead of LINE_OF_SIGHT in the CDI:TARGET tag?

It's sort of weird how the interaction def is split between the INTERACTION block and the CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION.  I guess the idea is that certain interaction attributes only make sense when the interaction is being performed by a creature.

I also can't tell from those raws how "native" interactions are handled, i.e. a native ability to perform an interaction without getting the ability from a syndrome.  Maybe creature effect (CE) stuff can just be included in a creature def as well as a syndrome def?

Yeah, you can add an additional effect and have a different target.  I don't remember if I have any like that in vanilla, so it might act oddly, but we'll work through the issues that come up.

Here is an imp's fireball:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

where "MATERIAL_EMISSION" looks like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So MATERIAL_EMISSION is just sort of a general shell for creatures to use.  It is kind of odd how it ended up.  I think I mentioned in the last set of responses that interactions had a sort of uncomfortable split between their own format and the creature/syndrome format.  The syndrome and creature use the same "CAN_DO_INTERACTION" tags (the CDI stuff).

I don't think vanilla has any self-targeting syndrome interactions, but you can feed the target SELF_ALLOWED or SELF_ONLY with/instead of LINE_OF_SIGHT/TOUCHABLE.  They don't have any hints or AI to help them know how to do things like adding a water breathing syndrome when they are drowning, so the side effect example of Mr Frog is more applicable for this release, although I could add a generic "combat aid" hint or something to get something in.  Real magic AI will be a longer process.

Quote from: Mr Frog
I see that the secret-based interactions have a hint as to what would motivate units to search them out in worldgen. Are there any others besides a fear of dying (as in necromancers) and if so, what are they?
Relatedly, for vampire- and werewolf-style divine-punishment thingies, are there any hint tags besides MAJOR_CURSE and, if so, what do they do?

Nah, that's it for goals.  It's just a little thing that I needed to throttle things before the personality rewrite.  The hints that I've needed so far are MAJOR_CURSE, ATTACK, GREETING, CLEAN_SELF and CLEAN_FRIEND.  There aren't any beneficial vanilla interactions, but as I mentioned in the last answer I could throw in a kind of beneficial catch-all until I have time to work further on magic AI.  It would be cool if there could just be a hint like "AS_NEEDED" or something that'll let it analyze the effects for beneficial/harmful effects or something, but I'm not sure what's going to work out.  The more versatile the effects are, the harder it is for the computer to analyze them.

Quote from: Deimos56
Will substances other than food or drink nourish or quench adventurers, such as, for the sake of simplicity and the most likely thing I suspect some people to drink, blood? And if so, is it possible for any substances to do both?

Nope, there isn't anything that works both ways, and I haven't changed how the other items work.

Quote
Quote from: Quantumtroll
Do household items like pots and jars wear out or break?  Will there be garbage middens for DF archaelogists to dig through?
Quote from: Knight Otu
Toady has mentioned before that there is some decay of worldgen goods, but we haven't heard any details yet. It doesn't happen afterwards yet, of course. We probably won't see garbage/broken stuff for a while. Archeology was mentioned by Toady as something of a goal when the game was smaller. I'm not sure what the current stance is there, though the Treasure Hunter and Explorer roles play into that idea.

Yeah, things break down a little percentage of the stockpile at a time (depending on the item type), but it doesn't store them as broken garbage.

Quote from: rhesusmacabre
Regarding rivers and ramps, what happens if a river is lower than the surrounding terrain? Are the ramps just on the top level or do the banks extend further out?

There are fewer of those canyon style rivers now, and when river canyons do happen, it generally doesn't last long, so you'll usually have no trouble finding a crossing.  When we officially get into cliffs and canyons (and climbing), I'll likely revisit this.

Quote from: Met
Now that you have put in so much work into human towns and brought sewers, dungeons, and markets into the mix, has that given you new ideas for the dwellings of other races? For instance, instead of sewers for players to explore and fight monsters in, perhaps mountainhomes would have... abandoned mining caves or something that criminals and creepy-crawlies would hide in?

We've thought about it a bit more now, but I don't have anything really concrete to add yet.  We certainly hope to reflect the balance of dwarven industries in their sites, and that would lead to various mines and magma forges and underground farms and whatever that implies about trouble down below.

Quote from: Sizik
Why, when you started on the new town structure a while back, did you remove dark fortresses and mountain halls* instead of leaving them in until they were ready for a rewrite? Or did the new town code make those structures incompatible with the site-generation code?

Side question: Labyrinths and Shrines still exist, right?

I don't remember, but I assume there was some sort of compatibility problem.  It's not like I don't want those sites.  Labyrinths and shrines should still be there.

Quote from: wierd
You mentioned in the dev log entry that there were problems with too many bone crafts showing up in the village markets. Have you considered other industrial uses for bones other than as a crafting material, such as bonemeal, or as a secondary material in the pottery industry, such as bone ash?

That log was in the context of me trying to get a release up.  I've written down some bone-related industries, but I don't want to implement them or even add garbage for this time.

Quote
Quote from: Koji
Toady, you were worried the sewers lacked enough items. What about things like garbage discarded by the townspeople or accidentally washed down in floods etc? It might be fun to start on the bottom of the food chain (Say, as a kobold) and literally pick through trash to get by until I could start competing with my angrier neighbors.

Medieval cities, as I understand it, generally either maintained a midden outside the gates or just threw their garbage in the street, where a lot of things like half-rotted food and discared/damaged tools might end up. Mix in a little rain and it all goes down eventually.
Quote from: Footkerchief
The devlog indicates concern about having interesting items -- the kind that would be deliberately taken down there by criminals and adventurers.  If you want to pick through garbage, you can still go to a craft shop.

He he he, well, garbage would be cool.  And there are still crafts shops.  I think the sewers do need to have more character, which would involve garbage.  As I said above it doesn't track the garbage.  I'm not sure I want to do it numerically as specifically as I track the regular items, because there's be a memory/speed hit there, but something will happen there.  I'm not sure what though.

Quote from: Urist Da Vinci
Is there a cap on the sewer population vs the surface population, or can we get situations where are more criminals in the sewer than people living in homes above?

Are the groups/creatures in the sewer all allied against the player, or can we see/cause factions in conflict?

It tries to keep a certain relationship in place, but after starvation and wars, you can end up with some weird situations.

I haven't tried pitting different bandit groups against each other, so I'm not sure what happens.  I haven't specifically tried to ally them with each other, but I have them section out the dungeon to avoid contact without help from you, since in theory they should have figured out their own areas during world gen, at least when they behave so violently.

Quote from: hermes
Do/Will the bandits (or gobbo camps etc.) perform raids on, say, the town or the marketplace, from their bases in the sewers/dungeons - either in world gen or adventure mode?

They don't leave their spots.  One of the earlier army-related changes will be getting bandits and monsters to move around.  There is a bit of theft in world gen now by the outcasts/kobs living in the dungeons.

Quote from: Rip0k
Do You plan to add a "Secret Room" feature during caravan arc releases?

I don't have a specific timeline for that sort of thing.  Secret doors and one-way doors complicate the current pathfinding optimizations, especially in dwarf mode.

Quote from: EmeraldWind
Are there other interaction effect tokens that deal with timing and delays? Are there any event trigger effect tokens? (Like an IE_TRIGGER:UPON_DEATH)

But it would be hard to do something like a zombie virus that kills the victim and raises them later from what I can tell.

Is it possible to have syndromes have interaction effects, like raising a corpse killed by said syndrome?

It's a very, very limited system right now.  I did what I needed to do to get by, with very little extra.  It wasn't my intent to make a more robust magic system, but just to create a seed for one.  The interaction system will be expanded slowly, and perhaps we'll just end up with magic gradually by accident or something.  Syndromes don't run on creatures after they are dead, and it isn't possible to target the corpse of a specific dead unit as that unit dies, but that would be a reasonable trigger and target to add later.

Quote
Quote from: Heph
Toady after reading the latest devlog entry i was wondering if only the blood of intelligent creatures work or if you could suck out a bunny or a boar. Secondly i wonder what would happen if you suck the blood of a creature that has an interaction linked to its blood?
Quote from: LordNagash
Why do they have to be unconscious? I mean if you're fighting someone one-on-one, seems likely that you'd be able to grapple them and then bite into them.

You'd be able to drain an unconscious animal, if you want to strangle one or something.  Any ingestion syndrome from the blood would be triggered.

The unconsciousness condition is just a matter of convenience.  I wanted to do the grapple-bite-suck thingy, but I didn't get there.

Quote from: Willfor
Will drinking someone's blood instantly declare you hostile toward their civilization, or do they have to catch you in the act for it to be flagged? I'm pretty much assuming that it's an instantly hostile thing, and planning to pick an adventuring place that is nestled between two human civilizations: I use one as a source of blood coming only at night to feed, and I use the other as my friendly place of business. I just have to make sure not to get my towns mixed up...

Somebody has to spot you for it to count against you, even if the target is killed.  That doesn't apply to regular attacks yet.

Quote
Quote from: me
Did a bunch of tweaks with undead naming in world gen, and next up I'll be extending that throughout the game, so that any interaction syndrome can provide a name like "vampire", "mummy", etc. (or whatever you want for mods).
Quote from: EmeraldWind
Will this cause creatures to be referred as the syndrome provided name in Legends mode and engravings (like how King Urist is noted as being a Night Hag Spouse for his entire history) or will the Legends display the original creature type?

It's the crappy way.  The identity stuff isn't supported everywhere.  It'll be great when that is finally sorted out, but it isn't properly handled yet.  Comprehensively rewriting the history code is more of a project.

Quote from: RockPhed
You mentioned a couple days ago that rivers have ramps for edges now.  Will companions follow adventures into the water, or can we still lose them by hopping into a river and swimming a little down stream?

They give it an honest shot.

Quote
Quote from: thvaz
It is still dangerous to cross rivers if you don't have swimming skill?
Quote from: Sizik
Specifically, do you still have to Alt-move down into the river in order to survive at all, as moving "straight" over the river results in you falling in and getting stunned?

It is dangerous once you get out in the water.  You have to alt-move to move to get into the air over the river, so that shouldn't happen by accident, although you also have to alt-move to use the ramp, since it doesn't allow movement into water as a non-careful action.  I haven't changed how jumping works.

Quote
Quote from: tfaal
Can vampires, necromancers, and other powerful night creatures come to rule goblin civilizations? If not, why not?
Quote from: Knight Otu
We haven't heard anything yet, so presumably no. The why not probably boils down to "time and priority", but as far as in-universe reasons, necromancers inevitably become antisocial right now, weres always become monsters, vampires don't arise among goblins (meaning that if they do take over a civ, it'll be a human one), and mummies lack worldgen disturbance events.

I don't remember if goblins build temples right now...  if so, then they can come up, if not, then I think it won't happen, because there aren't vampire children to be stolen in world gen.

Quote from: EmeraldWind
If a child gets turned into a vampire and shows up at your fortress, will the goblins be able to kidnap the vampire?

They'd be able to capture a child vampire, although you might to homegrow it through some creative spatter, since lone children don't migrate to the fort, and though it supports the lack of aging, vampire children don't yet come about in world gen.

Quote from: Areyar
This made me wonder: in the case of a ruler being a vampire. What happens when it is exposed? Will the justice system apply to the ruler or will the ruler be immune. (say by inherent immunity to justice or mandating vampyrism to be allowed)

To avoid complications for now, if you call out a ruler vampire, it'll get all angry and its cultists nearby will get angry if there are any, and you get to fight.  In world gen, if a ruler vampire becomes suspected, it'll go into tyrant mode.  It's all very simple for now.

Quote from: rex mortis
Will a vampire be able to drink from their sleeping travel rations...I mean companions?

If you are a vampire and you catch them sleeping somehow, then you can do it, but it's not something there's a specific interface or automatic action for.
Logged
The Toad, a Natural Resource:  Preserve yours today!

Toady One

  • The Great
    • View Profile
    • http://www.bay12games.com
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3888 on: January 21, 2012, 09:22:43 pm »

Part 2

Quote from: freeformschooler
In what situation would we encounter these mists? Spreading from a creature? Just sprawled about underground?

The mists move around the environment, entering from the edge (or rarely springing up), and they move like a cloud say 40 tiles across.  They can be outrun by a healthy individual.

Quote from: monk12
Are the mists a visible thing like miasma?

Yeah.

Quote from: Doomshifter
With these randomly generated materials, what sort of things will we see? Will they just have random names/hardnesses/etc. or will there also be ores of their own random metals (or even ores that have to be combine with other random ores to make even more random metal)?

Do you think it would be possible at all (even if just through modding) to entirely randomly generate every single material in the game for each world?

I haven't done any of the non-flowy ones yet, and I'm not sure how the rest will work.  Although it would be hard to avoid mush in the complete case, it is a goal to make full randomization possible as a setting.  I think I've talked a bit about the exposition we'd want to include with that, although the ideas are all unformed right now.  Good exposition would be difficult if absolutely everything is random.  You'd either have to plunge through without knowing what's up or just settle in for a lot of reading of bad mechanical prose.

Quote from: Monkeyfacedprickleback
Come on think how awesome it'd be to have a nice fledgling fort going strong and then a wave of faint yellow fog comes creeping in from the east. You don't know what it does so you send a dwarf in toinvestigate. His eyeballs melt his skin rots off and bleeds to death little more then a skeleton. And the he starts to move. So you have to quickly build a hacth cover to seal off your fort to stop the zombie gas from coming in the stair well. or if you are building above ground you have to lock all the doors an make sure the walls a high enough and that no one goes outside into the lethal murk, and a lone crossbowdwarf is stuck atop the highest tower unable to descend as the fatal gloom has penetrated the very fortification meant to protct him. Can you honestly say that isn't worth a week or two of added waiting. Good thing come to those who wait.

-Edit, And what if there were good interactions as well? Like if there was a mist which increased healing by a thousand, and made lost limbs and severed nerves grow back? Imagineif the fog rolled in so you sent your whole population out to get healed. And then A vile force of darkness comes! So you send in the militia and there's a battlefield coated in blood as the everhealing dwarfs and goblins fight and fight severing limbs only to grow them back again.

So i must ask OH Great Toady One will this crazed fever dream of mine ever be a reality?

The first paragraph kind of happens now, although it probably doesn't flow around as nicely as you'd like when it hits obstacles.  I don't have any interactions for good regions, but they are supported.

Quote from: LoSboccacc
will this 'randomized material' system be tied within the reactions and within the job manager for reactionless workshops?
...
depending on what will be available and how, random metals and stone may affect the fortress jobs.

without considering the availability of random stuff for digging:

bronze colossus leave a stone statue, will 'random metal colossus' leave an usable statue? that is, usable in rooms and in workshop.

magma man leaves obsidian, will 'random molten man' leave usable stone? that is, selectable for use in the stone menu and available in mason/trap/etc workshops

considering the availability of random stuff in layers where it can be dug out:
will those dug stone be available for jobs? will random ores be available for smelting? what will be the use of those smelt ores within the forges? right now, metal using jobs (weapons, armors, anvils, bins) are strictly defined in raws and the job manager allows to create specific metal jobs ("seven iron dagger", but also "smelt copper ore" and alloys)

Once random materials do go in, I think the main obstacle along those lines would be any job that would need to be listed in the entity raws.  I'm not sure what the examples are.  I think smelting would work, since you don't need to add every new ore to the entity raws.  Alloys are in the entity raws.  We could do something like adding permitted classes which cover a variety of jobs, etc., but it wouldn't work out of the box if we just added random metals and expected the alloys to function.  Since the random stones/metals would be "inorganic", I'd expect the furniture placement to all work.

Quote from: Cruxador
if burning and melting things isn't intended behavior for the mist, what is it supposed to be doing?

Aside from the husk zombie thingy, they can also be various poisons.  The rain has a limit on how bad the poison can be, while the mist can do pretty much anything supported, like making the eyes rot or whatever.

Quote from: Heph
Actually couldnt sand be handled via the new "gaseous stuff in regions" addition? I dont mean a full fledged Dust-storm (which would still be cool) but small clouds of wind driven sand that literally sand you down if you dont have clothing/protection?

Also how do those gases work in the game? Like smoke/miasma/steam?

You could probably have dust storms to some extent with the new interactions, but you wouldn't be able to get a specific material match with the region's soil, and they'd be small.  The mists are like smoke/miasma/steam, maybe slower.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold
Hm...if it rains blood from actual creatures...would it rain potentially toxic blood from procedurally generated/modded-in/etc critters? That could be Fun really fast...

It rains the blood from civilized creatures, but if you mod in a civilized creature with strange blood, that kind of blood would occur in the blood rains.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Is the regional mist omnipresent or does it show up periodically, like rain?

It pops up every once in a while from the edge (or if you are unlucky, it springs up).

Quote from: Dae
Is it intended for the vampire to only feed on living, fresh, same specie creature, even in the hypothetical version 1 ? In short, what is the final plan ?

I don't have strong feelings about it.  The sleeping condition is a convenience for me, and I'd hope to at least get rid of that.  After that, having some random wiggle is fine, I think, although I suppose forcing feeding on the living keeps things active.  Some kind of ghoulish thing that feeds on the dead is also cool.  Having a vampire hang around with barrels of ox blood is odd, but once we use blood in cooking etc., maybe it'll come up.

Quote from: EmeraldWind
Will the regional emission that causes the blood rain still be able to do solid materials or was that removed after the "dandruff snow" thing?

The vanilla ones are all blood or liquid slime, but mods can use powder as well.  I don't have regular hail yet, and there aren't solid glob regional emissions either.

Quote from: Anatoli
How do the dwarves react to [mists]? Do they get bad negative emotions and try to run away?

Do mists happen underground in caverns? That, would be really, really, terrifying. On the same note, bloody rivers (Nile)?

The mists are bad news, and I haven't done more than the major effects.

Nope, nothing new happens down there yet.

Quote from: caknuck
Because some of us will embark in "hell-on-earth" sites, will there be an announcement when zombifying/face-melting/vomit-inducing weather conditions start?

Yeah, it gives you an announcement when a mist enters the screen, and it gives a message when the rain starts.

Quote from: Heph
I wonder if the "evil weather" respects the weather simulation so that there is more nasty stuff happening in wet places.

It only respects the interaction timing.  We'll need to do something later that relates more to the water cycle and less with magical blood/slime.  It would be cool to change the properties of the rain in one way or another, rather than just adding a new freak weather event.

Quote
Quote from: Monkeyfacedprickleback
will mist sink down mineshafts if they are uncovered?
will different mists/weathers hit the same region, or will it be specific to each region?
If mist is specific to region? and how will it act in regards to moving across a multi-biome map. Will it just disappear as it crosses the boundary for it's biome?
Quote from: Cruxador
How many of these new region effects can happen in the same location as other region effects? How many varieties can we get at once? Does the regional undead thing function differently than material emissions for these purposes?

The mists will probably plop right down there as they move, even a bit oddly if the shaft connects straight up to the sky.  I think the random generator only adds one form of freak weather at most per region now, on top of whatever it decides to do with the undead.  When the mist gets out of its region, it'll drop off quickly.  Due to a quirk I haven't handled with region populations, the husk style undead don't get represented in world gen populations.

Quote from: Cruxador
Do dwarves try to avoid at least the worst of the stuff (like turning into a bloodless husk) or will he have to either manually block those areas out somehow or accept resulting losses?

Dwarves are still stupid.  I can probably work on this and fire a bit during the bug-fixing cycle if I remember.  Scanning around in 3D for a flow event is a little expensive, but I think it can be dealt with.

Quote from: ayoriceball
Will there be special mists or rain in relatively "good" areas?

I didn't get to that for the generated ones.  It is supported in the format.

Quote from: Hummingbird
How does the evil rain interact with the Adventure Mode character?

The evil rain will poison you however it poisons everybody else (these are the evil material rains, not the blood rains).  Dizziness/nausea/etc. screw up your various rolls/skills.  Evil mists can husk you if that's what the mist does.  As far as I understand it, if you are husked as an adventurer, you'll still be playing but everybody will attack you.

Quote from: Mr Frog
Will every Terrifying region have evil weather (assuming that Terrifying surroundings are what you meant by "hell-on-earth")?

No, but it's fairly common.  It'll also happen in the other kinds of evil regions.  The text just refers to the savagery rating, and I didn't link the effects to the savagery.  Whenever I do the sphere region/planey stuff, the material events will have to be refined to fit with the expanded themes, and that would carry over to the embark interface.

Quote from: Monkeyfacedprickleback
Will Dwarves have resistance to fog/rain? As in one dwarf who is susceptible to disease would die quickly from Fog/rain while one who rarely gets sick would die slowly.

If I recollect, the poisonous effects from the rain can be resisted, while the more localized mists are not resistable.

Quote from: Dwarfu
has the hammerer's [PRECEDENCE] value changed?

It is still 150 (which is less important than the sheriff and the expedition leader, so I think it is fine), but I did remove all the room requirements etc.

Quote from: monk12
Quote from: dev log
The last world I tested had a vampire that managed to get abducted by a gloom troll and turned into a "spouse of the gloom troll vampire"
So, in the quoted case, would the quest to kill such a creature be considered on par with killing a Gloom Troll Spouse, or on par with killing a vampire?

The heroism increase depends on the creature's skill, difficulty rating and whether it is a semi/megabeast.  Vampires can have high skills, but it doesn't currently try to rate the difficulty imparted by syndrome changes.  So it'll be at least as good as killing a gloom troll, and possibly better, but it doesn't properly measure the total challenge that comes from the material resistance etc.

Quote from: Heph
If this vamp were to propagate would he make normal Humans to his "basic" vampire type or to his new mixed type? What about his weaknesses? Would the powers stack? Would be the child out of this unhealthy combination be also a vampire and troll? How would the behavior change? Will you take this stuff out? I hope not!

The vampirism syndrome and the race are independent, so the basic vampire status passes around in its own vanillaish way.  If you have racial material resistances/weakenesses and a series of syndrome-based material resistances/weaknesses, I think they all stack (or work against each other as the case may be).  The child would be a pure troll, if the spouse can have a child -- vampirism should render the spouse sterile, but I don't know if it actually worked for that weird troll event, since I didn't check.

Whenever we handle general vampire "half-breeds" and all that (that is, when the sterility tag is removed), then we'll handle the troll.

Quote from: Lord Dakoth
Will night creatures ever abduct player-controlled adventurers and turn them into night creature spouses? If so, would you maintain control of your adventurer after the transformation, or would this be considered a "Game Over?"

When abductions go into adventure mode, the adventurer will by default be as fair a target as anybody else, unless I run into some messy problem that forces me to add a special exception.  Without a special exception, you are just another historical figure.  Adding the whole transformation process is something of a project, and we'd have to consider what it means for you as an adventurer to even see it happen to somebody else before we consider you going through it yourself.  Once we have a process in place for a generic historical figure to be converted in place while you are on the map, putting you through that is pretty straightforward (being dragged somewhere would require some kind of interface/travel change as well).  I'm not sure whether you'd get to keep playing.  You get to keep playing as a mist-husked zombie right now, which is the default position, but it is unsatisfying in the same way that allowing you to assume the role of a historical ruler would be, because you don't have the relationships/reactions from others/etc. associated to the role (aside from the very basic result of being attacked).

Quote from: hermes
I'm curious, does this diaspora of dwarven families arise from children or parents actually migrating from fortress to fortress in worldgen, or is this movement abstracted?

It doesn't form a path and have them on the road, but they do move from site to site in terms of living in one place and then living in another.    The exception is populations displaced by war, which have a period of time living in the wilds before resettling (if they can).  More generally, every historical figure has a concrete location for every week in world gen (in some cases this location can be the forest they are wandering, rather than a site).

Quote from: finka
What are the obstacles to just assembling the starting seven dwarves as if they were a migrant wave (and possibly replacing their skills)?

From a design perspective, location and skill replacements are pretty much the only obstacles.  Roughly, you're either going to be drawing dwarves from all over the world, which is weird, or you'll have a limited selection of skills available from your area, or you'll be mind-wiping people that have histories (which makes choosing historical figures half-pointless and strange).  Personally speaking, I'd prefer to choose dwarves from some locality with some start scenario explaining what's going on and dealing with having a non-perfect skill mix, with the option to elevate non-historical dwarves to fill gaps.

In the end, it's not exactly a huge problem, if people don't mind wiping skills it's not a hard thing to do, and now that we have historical migrants in general, this is an avenue that has opened up.

Quote from: Spish
will trading something to the mountainhomes allow you to request it from the outpost liaison later on?

We haven't gotten into that sort of tracking yet (it tracks the items, but doesn't place them in the proper resource categories), but theoretically that sort of thing would begin to happen when there are resources moving around in play more regularly, and when trade agreements are improved.

Quote from: Dae
Not sure if it's too technical to be asked, but Toady : how can a necromancer line of sight affect a non-necromancer targetting something ? Do you mean targetting as in chosing which body part to attack or the "fire crossbow"-type targetting ? And finally, what do werewolves have to do with any targetting at all ?

Targeting as in determining friend-or-foe status (so whether or not to target in the first place).  There's a lot of information to check, and one part of it wasn't being cached properly, so it ended up being calculated repeatedly.

Quote from: Neonivek
Toady do the sponsorship animals means that soon we will have giant and person versions of all the animals currently in the game? Are we that far from a Monarch Butterflyman?

I haven't done it yet, but now that I have these animals in, I think I'm not going to add in many new types of animals until we've done some justice to what we already have.  That justice might include a monarch butterflyman and giant monarch butterflies.  It might count as an unhealthy obsession, but it is part of the game.

Quote from: hermes
Are there any plans for city structures, of any race, to reach into the sky?

The little keeps can be several tiles tall, and they have crappy maps now.  Similarly for the pyramids and things, which can be quite tall.  In the future, there will be the giant trees and whatever else.  Once we have cliffs and canyons, we can start getting into some cool settlements there as well.  I think there's something like 10 or 15 sky tiles that are allocated now, which is enough for most purposes, but you might have had something else in mind.  When we start to get a bit more weirdly planar, cloud kingdoms or really tall towers might be called for.  I'm not sure if the really tall things would always be associated to a civilization.

Quote from: Anatoli
Toady, what is your stance on SOPA and the like. I reckon (from Dwarf Talk) you are pretty paranoid about such things.

There's a General Discussion thread on this topic, and I don't want to get into much of a derail in here, but we're against SOPA/PIPA.  I have no expertise here, but it seems that also holds for the people that wrote and sponsored these bills, given the amount of flailing and backpedaling which happened after the blackout.

Quote from: Gamerlord
Will armour ever have a noticeable effect on speed and dodging? I mean, will leather armour have a concrete advantage over steel when it comes to fast response to attacks and a dodging boost?

EmeraldWind brought up the combat/move speed split, the lack of which has caused a lot of the delay in implementing a lot of things like this.  There are effects based on armor weight/armor user skill, but it doesn't cover much.  There's a "clunkiness" penalty to rolls and an overall speed penalty, I think.  I'm not sure what the overall deal should be with armor weights.  We're missing things like padding under metal armor, and I don't know anything at all about how leather armors work with that or how much they should weigh or encumber compared to other armors.  There's kind of an RPG tradition there, but I'm not sure how it should actually work.

Quote from: werechicken
will titans, forgotten beasts and mega beasts automatically rise from the dead in regions were normal creatures would? Also would this only apply above ground, or all the way down to the circus?

I think the regional targeting goes all the way down, at least when you are in play.  Layer population creatures aren't altered in world gen if I remember, because they can overlap regions.  That should be resolved one way or the other.

The regional animation effect targets critters that are in the GENERAL_POISON class, and among randomly generated creatures, I think that's all of the ones with blood.  So those corpses will rise (or be generated as zombies if they start in a bad place in world gen).
Logged
The Toad, a Natural Resource:  Preserve yours today!

monk12

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sorry, I AM a coyote
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3889 on: January 21, 2012, 10:12:12 pm »

Hooray! I wasn't sure we were going to get another one of these before the release. The fact you can keep playing in adventure mode as a "husk" is pretty entertaining- I can't wait to peek at the raws and see if that is a net gain or decrease in combat ability.

Jacob/Lee

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3890 on: January 21, 2012, 10:18:38 pm »

Wow, that's a read. A really good one, too! :D

Monkeyfacedprickleback

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sweet flaming monkey fire WHY are they doing that?
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3891 on: January 21, 2012, 10:19:54 pm »

Thanks heaps for the answers Toady!
Logged

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3892 on: January 21, 2012, 10:26:33 pm »

Wow, that is a lot of insight on the next release. Can't wait for it.  :D
Logged
Even though accounts vary, everyone has a legendary story to tell.

The Writer's Apprenticeship - A thread dedicated to literary art!

Tales of Shattered Dreams - My RTD, a continuous work in progress.

Beardless

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3893 on: January 21, 2012, 10:36:31 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Toady! Sounds like it's going to be a very interesting release.

Not sure why I didn't see it this way when it first came up, but I'm now envisioning monarch butterflymen as the rulers over all butterflymankind. It's an odd image.
Logged
So it turns out that dumping magma on skeletons is either a really bad idea or maybe like the best idea ever.

EmeraldWind

  • Bay Watcher
  • Hey there, dollface...
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3894 on: January 21, 2012, 11:52:44 pm »

Wow, I asked a lot of questions. Thanks for answering them.
Logged
We do not suffer from insanity. We enjoy every single bit of it.

Doomshifter

  • Bay Watcher
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3895 on: January 22, 2012, 12:04:11 am »

Toady answered my question! SQUEE~

100% Randomfortress is a possibility (however distant)! Hurrah! It'd be the most insane of challenge modes. No one would know what to expect, what to do, what will work. Excellent. EXCELLENT.
Logged
Add me on PesterChum! My chumhandle is doomedHermit.
Right now Rampages seem to be Godzilla quietly walking into Tokyo, biting the leg off of one reporter... then creeping off again without a sound.

bombzero

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3896 on: January 22, 2012, 12:16:29 am »

Hey Toady, after reading your thing about the historical starting migrants, i got an idea.

what if you simply 'hired' dwarfs with your embark points, instead of assigning points to their skills? you could have a list of 20-30 aspiring dwarfs and pick from the list based on how many points you wanted to spend.
also, maybe along those lines the ability to hire temporary soldiers, that would stick around until the fall caravan and leave with it, it would have to be implemented after mt previous idea but it would help with evil biome embarks.

i dont really know how well this would work, but it seems to me like this, or a variation of it, would be pretty nice. but likely wouldn't be implemented till 2045 :P
Logged

Zander J

  • Bay Watcher
  • High Master Philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3897 on: January 22, 2012, 12:46:14 am »

Logged
Quote from: Toady One on January 21, 2012, 09:22:43 pm

Dwarves are still stupid.

Putnam

  • Bay Watcher
  • DAT WIZARD
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3898 on: January 22, 2012, 01:35:20 am »

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold
Hm...if it rains blood from actual creatures...would it rain potentially toxic blood from procedurally generated/modded-in/etc critters? That could be Fun really fast...

It rains the blood from civilized creatures, but if you mod in a civilized creature with strange blood, that kind of blood would occur in the blood rains.
[/quote]

This is absolutely perfect. Actually, that brings up an interesting hypothetical situation...

If you have a creature that has caste-based blood, will the blood rain be chosen randomly from each caste or will it be all from one caste?

Also, an idea.

How about "Play now" simply randomly takes the dwarves from a nearby site? It would be a good placeholder implementation for the "situation" that is going to be in eventually.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 01:37:55 am by Putnam »
Logged

Caldfir

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3899 on: January 22, 2012, 01:57:02 am »

Dwarves are still stupid. I can probably work on this and fire a bit during the bug-fixing cycle if I remember.  Scanning around in 3D for a flow event is a little expensive, but I think it can be dealt with.
FIRE AI OMG
Logged
where is up?
Pages: 1 ... 258 259 [260] 261 262 ... 298