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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1163031 times)

Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3930 on: January 22, 2012, 04:18:49 pm »

Twilight Vampires aren't even Vampires.  They're unseelie.  Poorly written unseelie, but unseelie all the same.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3931 on: January 22, 2012, 05:35:01 pm »

Twilight Vampires aren't even Vampires.  They're unseelie.  Poorly written unseelie, but unseelie all the same.

I always think of a reverse Francis, and think of them as more being zombies.

Kadzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3932 on: January 22, 2012, 05:52:32 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Toady! Sounds like it's going to be a very interesting release.

Not sure why I didn't see it this way when it first came up, but I'm now envisioning monarch butterflymen as the rulers over all butterflymankind. It's an odd image.
It makes me think someone should make a fortress known as the "Compound of Venture". It would be especially good if you could get a friendly necromancer named "Orpheus" living with you somehow.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3933 on: January 22, 2012, 09:01:16 pm »

Funny story, I'm working on a mod for personal use that replaces all the existing races with my own (still fairly generic) races.  One of these races just happened to have poisonous blood, which at the time I thought would be a cool little detail.  And now, according to Toady, I find out that this poisonous blood might rain from the sky.

Random and unintentionally deadly.  Wierd how that worked out.
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greenwatering

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3934 on: January 22, 2012, 09:49:08 pm »

Toady, i find the stone management function screen to be tedious. Could we ever designated stone use per workshop instead of fortress wide?
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3935 on: January 22, 2012, 10:44:23 pm »

Toady, i find the stone management function screen to be tedious. Could we ever designated stone use per workshop instead of fortress wide?

This is not the place for suggestions.
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greenwatering

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3936 on: January 22, 2012, 11:41:45 pm »

thanks
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Quatch

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3937 on: January 23, 2012, 12:30:29 am »

Toady, i find the stone management function screen to be tedious. Could we ever designated stone use per workshop instead of fortress wide?

This is not the place for suggestions.

More importantly, you should be aware of the ESV list, a votable compilation of the most common suggestions. It is here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/eternal_voting.php
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3938 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:54 am »

Thanks to Footkerchief, MrWiggles, Knight Otu and anybody I missed for helping with questions this time.

Quote from: Kogut
So it is possible to find vampires by creating bedrooms, without assigning. Wait. Dwarves without claimed ones are vampires. Is it a intended behaviour? Maybe vampire also should claim bedrooms? Or maybe it is somehow predicted but not mentioned.

I don't think I handled that.  Keep 'em coming, he he he.  It'll be an arms race for a while as we patch up stuff I didn't cover.

What does the vampire job say when they are heading to a sleeping victim or in the process of feeding? I hope we don't get "Shem Dedukbomrek, Engraver cancels Suck Blood: Interrupted by Goblin Hammerman" or "Iden Tathuroltar, Furnace Operator cancels Attend Party: Thirsty for blood". Do you think they need to lie to the player a bit about what they are/were doing?

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3939 on: January 23, 2012, 01:14:22 am »

What does the vampire job say when they are heading to a sleeping victim or in the process of feeding? I hope we don't get "Shem Dedukbomrek, Engraver cancels Suck Blood: Interrupted by Goblin Hammerman" or "Iden Tathuroltar, Furnace Operator cancels Attend Party: Thirsty for blood". Do you think they need to lie to the player a bit about what they are/were doing?

There's a whole new category of jobs (of one job as it stands) that counts as being on break.  So the vampire will be listed as "On Break", and it never announces cancellations for these jobs.  I figured "On Break" would cause less trouble on the bug tracker and questions sections than "No Job", but we'll have to see if there's a better way to stop needless confusion.  The thirst can cancel jobs, but it doesn't announce those either.  I suppose confusion might arise if you saw the vampire was starting a job and then you find that the job wasn't finished and there was no announcement, but hopefully that won't be much of a problem either.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3940 on: January 23, 2012, 01:44:06 am »

Quote from: Putnam
If you have a creature that has caste-based blood, will the blood rain be chosen randomly from each caste or will it be all from one caste?

Also, an idea.

How about "Play now" simply randomly takes the dwarves from a nearby site? It would be a good placeholder implementation for the "situation" that is going to be in eventually.

It enumerates all the valid blood types from each caste, but it doesn't take caste frequency into consideration.

"Play now" is supposed to be slightly easier to use, because it has a lot of the professions selected within the seven dwarves.  A random collection of historical dwarves would mostly be from a few professions and not necessarily useful ones.

Quote from: Thundercraft
How about something like searchable "piles" of refuse or debris?
By that I mean tiles which are identified as refuse or debris and, when searched, an adventurer would find one or more random items. That way, the game would not have to track any additional items until after an adventurer searches through a pile, so no memory/speed hit would occur. Although, after searching through a pile one or more times, I suppose the pile would either have to be removed or flagged so that it can not be searched infinitely for infinite items. Similarly, I could imagine an adventurer coming across a chest or box in which criminals or other adventurers might have stashed something. Again, items could be randomly genterated after a container is searched.

The issue is world gen tracking, rather than the tracking of items during play (though play tracking has some general problems independent of garbage).  We have chests/bags/etc. filled with stolen objects, and those are all tracked during the weeks in world gen numerically as site stockpiles are raided, and then placed on site for you to find.  There'd just be a higher volume of garbage with more diverse types to track.  When I get around to it, I'll probably try to find some sort of middle ground between random generation and complete tracking.  The easiest would probably be to allow garbage of any type of good that is currently present at the site, without respecting historical-but-not-present trade goods.

Quote from: Karakzon
Will, in future when we can drain animals blood into barrels, get the option for things like werebeasts etc to 'donate' some of their blood so you can safely convert your dwarves to a selected class?

I think the main issue with something like vampire blood sausages might be the historical material tracking, probably, although theoretically that information could survive all the way to the finished product if the blood is pure.  It needs to know where the blood came from to give it the proper cursing powers.  Once the food has the right material, everything else would be automatic as the code currently stands with ingested syndromes...  although come to think of it, I'm not sure it goes through each food ingredient.  I know it goes through the spatter on the item.  Yeah, it only looks at the spatter and the main material of the item.  I guess item improvements and ingredient triggers will be for later.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3941 on: January 23, 2012, 03:00:58 am »

Twilight Vampires aren't even Vampires.  They're unseelie.  Poorly written unseelie, but unseelie all the same.

I always think of a reverse Francis, and think of them as more being zombies.
Vampires are not real, therefore, an author, can define them however, they choose. Thusly, the vampires in Twlight are vampires, because, thats what vampires in Twilight are.

This kind of thing annoys me. Its like, saying the Hobbits in The Hobbit, aren't Hobbits. They're closer to large brownies.
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Jheral

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3942 on: January 23, 2012, 03:18:11 am »

This kind of thing annoys me. Its like, saying the Hobbits in The Hobbit, aren't Hobbits. They're closer to large brownies.

Of course, the problem with that logic is that Twilight in no way invented or defined the word "Vampire".

A better analogy would be that saying that the Dwemer of Elder Scrolls lore are not dwarves despire being called dwarves. Which, incidentally, is also true - they aren't.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 03:21:32 am by Jheral »
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Dae

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3943 on: January 23, 2012, 03:25:02 am »

Except you can't really invent a monster born through millenia of fear of the dark. ANd you can define a vampire as much as you can define a cloud. A vampire is, at its most restrictive point, a creature that feeds by draining something from something else.

Look, all that argument already happened, ok ? Let's not get back to it.

Was I the only one interpreting the somewhat later report as "OMGOMGOMG it's taking time because he's uploading the release" ?
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Jheral

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3944 on: January 23, 2012, 03:39:10 am »

Following that line of thought, is a mosqito a vampire?

I was critizising the logic, not the designation of vampire for the Twilight-vampires. Vampires, to me at least, is defined as a humanoid, sapient being that feeds on other sapient humanoids by drinking their blood. No more, no less. By that definition yes, Twilight does indeed have vampires - albeit ones that deviate from established tropes - but that doesn't mean that Twilight has some sort of monopoly on the term or it's definition, unlike The Hobbit and hobbits.

And yes, it does look like it's getting really close. Can't wait!  :D
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