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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 516334 times)

O11O1

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4275 on: February 10, 2012, 01:24:57 am »

Hasn't he been trying to switch to a shorter code cycle the entire lifespan of this game?
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Caldfir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4276 on: February 10, 2012, 02:59:43 am »

He kinda jumps back and forth.  There was about a year of ~2-month releases after the big DF2010 release.  Then this cycle started and things seem like they kinda got away on him. 

I would personally chalk the length of this cycle up to the creature drive.  Toady has stated he felt compelled to do an extra good job on these creatures.  This meant that he was looking at ways to make the creatures unique, so he started the interaction system.  Then he added squids and so material breaths got merged into the interaction system, so there were interaction attacks.  Then he noticed that he had just made all these cool catacombs and stuff, but there was nothing in them, because undead were super lame, so he added undead to the interaction system, and if undead are created through an interaction then why not add necromancers?  At this point Toady pretty much just decided that, since he was already on a roll, he may as well flesh out the night creatures completely.  That brings us to today, after werewolves and vampires and mummies and catacomb-dwellers have all been loaded in. 
(note: this is not speculation; this is all just what I remember from devlog entries)

So yeah.  Cities (what was actually on the dev page for this release) were mostly done around July or so, and since then has been night creatures and interactions, all spurred by the new animals.  What is somewhat funny about all this is that the animal sponsorship drive was envisioned (as I understand it) as "an easy way to encourage donation without slowing down development significantly" since, had Toady just made RAW entries for the described creatures, it would have taken no time at all.  What ended up happening though is that he wanted to "do [each creature] justice" because people had paid for them. 

Anyway, there's your year-long release explained.
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4277 on: February 10, 2012, 04:37:32 am »

In a way, I prefer the longer release cycles.

I mean, sure, it makes my own work harder. But at the same time, it means that whenever there is a release, it's something really worth looking forward to.

Also, DF is really starting to live up to its billing, don't you think? I can't imagine what 1.0 will be like. :D
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Japa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4278 on: February 10, 2012, 04:56:03 am »

It also makes the dfhack guys more productive. I mean, have you seen what those guys managed to do while they were waiting for the next release?

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4279 on: February 10, 2012, 05:12:58 am »

Well I greatly prefer the quicker release schedule. Which is probably what we're going to get now. Seems like after every long release, Toady goes "that was way too long, I ain't doing that again" and updates on a reasonable schedule for a year or two. Hopefully that means we'll get most of the Caravan stuff fairly quickly, without too much deviation to other odd things.
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YetAnotherStupidDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4280 on: February 10, 2012, 07:10:30 am »

Quote from: Toady
made swimmers able to move up and out of rivers without using the alt key
I am almost certain this applies only to adventurer mode, but I want to be sure. Does this mean that dorfs drowning due to dogde in pond will be now a little rarer?

I more meant that i had heard that with the new style of splitting the 'arcs' into smaller releases that we may actually expect major releases on a more frequent basis, but they wont be as huge of changes.
Toady tried that, yes. And failed spectacularly. Just get used to it, because release 2 will be no different.

BTW nice to see Baughn back.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4281 on: February 10, 2012, 07:23:20 am »

Quote from: Toady
made swimmers able to move up and out of rivers without using the alt key
I am almost certain this applies only to adventurer mode, but I want to be sure. Does this mean that dorfs drowning due to dogde in pond will be now a little rarer?
That's an unrelated and entirely different issue.

With the answer, being no.
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Lumix

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4282 on: February 10, 2012, 07:54:40 am »

Quote from: Toady
made swimmers able to move up and out of rivers without using the alt key
I am almost certain this applies only to adventurer mode, but I want to be sure. Does this mean that dorfs drowning due to dogde in pond will be now a little rarer?
That's an unrelated and entirely different issue.

With the answer, being no.

At first i was like
"Does this even happen, i have never seen it"
Then i realised, It explains why half of my military was dead in a puddle.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4283 on: February 10, 2012, 08:15:18 am »

Quote from: Toady
made swimmers able to move up and out of rivers without using the alt key
I am almost certain this applies only to adventurer mode, but I want to be sure. Does this mean that dorfs drowning due to dogde in pond will be now a little rarer?
That's an unrelated and entirely different issue.

With the answer, being no.

At first i was like
"Does this even happen, i have never seen it"
Then i realised, It explains why half of my military was dead in a puddle.

Yea, when the AI is in combat, and it tries to dodge, it doesn't do a sanity check to where it's dodging. Which makes sense on some levels. Sometimes you're going to dodge, and not look to where your dodging. But on the other hand, it doesnt seem like the personality facets impact this. Dorfs with high spatial reasoning, as an example seem to jump off of cliffs just as often.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4284 on: February 10, 2012, 08:30:37 am »

Yea, when the AI is in combat, and it tries to dodge, it doesn't do a sanity check to where it's dodging. Which makes sense on some levels. Sometimes you're going to dodge, and not look to where your dodging. But on the other hand, it doesnt seem like the personality facets impact this. Dorfs with high spatial reasoning, as an example seem to jump off of cliffs just as often.

For those interested in this topic, there's a collection of dodging bugs at this report.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4285 on: February 10, 2012, 09:13:05 am »

i think the fact they can't swim out of a meager pool is the buggy part, and if i remember right, those will have ramps leading down to them in the future, so it's fixed enough for me. adding a chance of making better dodge choices based on spatial sense and cool headedness would make sense

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4286 on: February 10, 2012, 09:22:04 am »

i think the fact they can't swim out of a meager pool is the buggy part, and if i remember right, those will have ramps leading down to them in the future, so it's fixed enough for me. adding a chance of making better dodge choices based on spatial sense and cool headedness would make sense

Ramps have been confirmed for rivers/brooks but not for ponds/pools.  I'd green it for clarification, but it seems like we're only a few days away.

There are really three separate issues here:
- dodging off ledges, even at high skill levels
- lack of ramps around bodies of water
- unskilled swimmers having no chance to climb out of the water
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Greiger

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4287 on: February 10, 2012, 10:39:05 am »

Adding ramps should help with the rivers at least.  I was under the impression that part of the issue was that if they are in the water long enough to have to re-path they don't think they can get out because there is no ramps.  Making the pathing think that there isn't actually a way out of the water.  Then because they can't find a way out of the water they sit in place and patiently drown.

Seems that way with invaders on amphibious mounts at least.  Long after the greenskin drowns the cave croc just sits in the pool while all the others retreated.  Until something gets close enough to trigger the whole "hey look it's an enemy I'll try to move straight at/away from it" type stuff.

Of course this is all part speculation part observation.  I don know the code.
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4288 on: February 10, 2012, 12:03:24 pm »

Part of it, too, is if that you dodge into the water instead of moving carefully then you "fall" a level, sploosh to the bottom of the water, become stunned and consequently start to drown.

Kriby

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4289 on: February 10, 2012, 12:18:50 pm »

Are dwarves denser than water?

For that matter does the game take density into account in regards to water and floating?
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