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Author Topic: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions  (Read 26141 times)

Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2011, 01:18:08 am »

I'm tempted to fix it myself, but my C++ is mediocre, from programming experience in general though it just seems like an out of bounds array caused by the above events.  Which is probably obvious to like everyone lol.

My C++ is mediocre as well, that's partially why I started this thread. I like hunting down bugs - minor ones, sneaky ones, filthy little skulking ones. It's easier than coding new features (which I will get on with once most of the bugs are resolved) and is certainly helpful for the game.

EDIT: While fixing it probably won't be too hard, about the sleeper leader bug - would it be better if a) sleepers could never be leaders or b) a sleeper may become leader only if no active liberal can, and must give up their sleeper status to do so?

EDIT: I've confirmed the flag burning bug - even at L flag burning law, the rap sheet in review screen shows one instance. However, I had one with flag burning in trial - the charge wasn't mentioned, but the list of charges ended with " 405 counts of vandalism and ." which may be caused by flag mania.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 11:09:09 am by Kay12 »
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Elodie Hiras

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2011, 12:02:54 pm »

About the interface...

Holding S should stop making skip turns when an encounter is triggered. Or maybe you could make a command "wait until encounter".

It's annoying to hold S and getting killed because some guy shot you.

Thanks Kay12!
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Jamini

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2011, 12:36:59 pm »

I'd prefer sleepers to give up their sleeper status if they become leader. Losing every potential leader but your 200 juice (recruited) sleeper lawyer in a raid should not be an immediate loss.
I'd also like to second a wait for encounter option. Perhaps have it be Shift-S?

Also, I would like to see some rare places where you can buy ammo for the special guns (The Machinegun and Deagle). Perhaps said ammo could only be availible from Mercenaries via the Black Market Interface? I understand this ammo is supposed to be special, but it's rather depressing considering how dangerous it is to get said guns (especially the Machine Gun) in the first place. The rarity of Mercs in L and L+ societies could help offset the power of those guns in late-game. If you did implement it, the cost of the clips should be prohibitivly high. (Say, $100 base black market price for deagle clips, and $500 base black market price for M249 clips when society is C+, and going up from there.)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 12:47:50 pm by Jamini »
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Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2011, 12:03:30 pm »

Holding S should stop making skip turns when an encounter is triggered. Or maybe you could make a command "wait until encounter".

Sounds good, perhaps a quick key (wait until next month or something) should be added to the interface, and critical messages (raids, raid warnings, sleepers sacked etc) should require another key (like Return) to be pressed. Would make the game play a bit smoother.

(EDIT: Now I realized that you were talking about site actions. For some reason I was stuck in the basemode. I think basemode has the same problem though, so adding it as well)

About the clips, that's exactly what I've been thinking. Another possibility would be that the CEO safe and armory would continue providing clips (but not the guns) after the first time.

And about sleepers, I suppose the system should work like this:

1. Old leader dies.
2. Check other active Liberals for potential leaders. Promote the best leader candidate to leader.
3. None found? Check sleepers for potential leaders. Promote the best leader candidate to leader, and give a nice flavortext about the character deciding to get serious.
4. No leader candidates found? Lose the game.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 12:07:07 pm by Kay12 »
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 12:49:43 am »

Before the alarm sounds, there's no reason to wait for any reason other than waiting for an encounter. I would make S trigger another encounter immediately, and, if the alarm hasn't sounded, I would make S clear the current encounter as well, as the group moves on.
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Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2011, 02:39:48 am »

Actually there was some reason to wait! I'm sure I knew it yesterday, about 10 minutes before going to sleep... think think think think think... or maybe it was after alarm after all...

FIRES! That's it!
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2011, 03:31:37 am »

Actually there was some reason to wait! I'm sure I knew it yesterday, about 10 minutes before going to sleep... think think think think think... or maybe it was after alarm after all...

FIRES! That's it!

Yeah, I wouldn't change the post-alarm waiting. Post-alarm, waiting also runs into things like response time from SWAT teams.
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Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2011, 03:09:46 am »

M'yeah, changing the wait key would be pretty ok... after all, it just reduces tedium. After alarm it should function normally.

I think site sitemode "Wait until end of month/interesting stuff" is accepted as well?
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G-Flex

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2011, 12:35:55 pm »

If the "wait" command changes on-site, keep in mind the implications of that, since time spent on-site does matter, as far as I know; it takes a certain amount of time for conservatives to get suspicious/alarmed, for instance. I forget what else actually depends on time in turns, if anything.
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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2011, 01:09:10 pm »

If the "wait" command changes on-site, keep in mind the implications of that, since time spent on-site does matter, as far as I know; it takes a certain amount of time for conservatives to get suspicious/alarmed, for instance. I forget what else actually depends on time in turns, if anything.

Pre-alarm, few things depend on time in turns. What you mentioned is the only one; if you attract attention (so-and-so looks at you suspiciously), you have a certain amount of time before Conservatives get suspicious across the whole site. I would make wait force a spawn next turn, rather than waiting multiple turns until a group randomly spawns.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2011, 01:54:41 pm »

Had something interesting happen when I tried to dispose of a body and was chased by the police.  After I evaded the first group, then I was "caught" again and had to evade a different set of cops, and then again a third time.  I don't know if that itself is normal, but it's never happened to me before.  After it was over, I checked my rap sheet, and it was counted as three different cases of Improper Burial (or whatever it is).
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Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2011, 02:50:17 pm »

Aye, confirmed, in a way. I've had wonky chases myself, in a similar fashion. Especially when fleeing from sieges - some Liberal breaks free and still reappers to run with the others.
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G-Flex

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2011, 06:30:54 pm »

If the "wait" command changes on-site, keep in mind the implications of that, since time spent on-site does matter, as far as I know; it takes a certain amount of time for conservatives to get suspicious/alarmed, for instance. I forget what else actually depends on time in turns, if anything.

Pre-alarm, few things depend on time in turns. What you mentioned is the only one; if you attract attention (so-and-so looks at you suspiciously), you have a certain amount of time before Conservatives get suspicious across the whole site. I would make wait force a spawn next turn, rather than waiting multiple turns until a group randomly spawns.

That has incredibly bizarre consequences, though. Let's say you're in such a situation where you've attracted attention and have so many turns until the whole site gets alarmed. In that case, if you wait, you can encounter people every single turn, but if you move around, you don't... so standing still amounts to a "shout really loudly and attract someone's attention right now" button as opposed to, well, waiting. Basically, with what's being suggested here, you have more time to kill if you wander around the place (which doesn't attract attention all that often) and waiting in the same spot draws attention immediately and on every turn, which is... rather counter-intuitive.

I would agree with the proposed change if time didn't really mean anything on a site, but in that case, it does. So I'd suggest that instead of making "wait" spawn an encounter immediately, just put in some kind of command that allows the player to wait multiple turns or until an encounter occurs.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2011, 07:53:28 pm »

That has incredibly bizarre consequences, though. Let's say you're in such a situation where you've attracted attention and have so many turns until the whole site gets alarmed. In that case, if you wait, you can encounter people every single turn, but if you move around, you don't... so standing still amounts to a "shout really loudly and attract someone's attention right now" button as opposed to, well, waiting. Basically, with what's being suggested here, you have more time to kill if you wander around the place (which doesn't attract attention all that often) and waiting in the same spot draws attention immediately and on every turn, which is... rather counter-intuitive.

I would agree with the proposed change if time didn't really mean anything on a site, but in that case, it does. So I'd suggest that instead of making "wait" spawn an encounter immediately, just put in some kind of command that allows the player to wait multiple turns or until an encounter occurs.

You're pointing out that if a conservative has glanced at you, you can have more encounters before "conservatives suspicious" comes up if you hit wait than if you walk around. I don't think this is even noticeable, let alone incredibly bizarre. Time is abstract in sitemode. What does wait mean? Wait for one unit of time? Wait for something notable to happen? There's no purpose to the former, so we make it the latter. You could say it's bizarre that the secret timer the player can't see doesn't tick more than once, but it's not like the player is going to notice the difference. If you saw the code and wondered about it, I could just say that standing in one place and looking innocuous while others walk by attracts less attention than moving around, and that would be the end of it.

Furthermore, why would this ever come up as an issue in real gameplay? Is there any reason at all in the game to wait pre-alarm besides wanting a group to show up? What is the player doing such that they have reason to wait, and don't want to attract attention? If you're looking for encounters, is there a balance issue that makes it a problem for you to get extra encounters? Is it even thematically strange that if you're looking for encounters, you can find more in a short amount of time than you could otherwise?

I have strong preference against further complicating the interface of an already overcrowded screen, especially when the added function is just a shortcut, not a new feature. I would rather remove the timer before "conservatives suspicious" comes up, and make it only possible to trigger it by getting one too many suspicious glances, than add yet another button just to wait for an encounter. I really don't think it matters, though. Making wait spawn an encounter only removes the ability to do nothing for a turn, which has no purpose in the game except to make your fingers tired... or to wait for a fire to die down in your exit path, or for siege units to move out of the way, both of which are post-alarm.
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Kay12

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Re: Bugs, UI issues and Minor Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2011, 12:20:58 am »

I have strong preference against further complicating the interface of an already overcrowded screen, especially when the added function is just a shortcut, not a new feature.

This is a very relevant concern. However, if the same key functions differently during different parts of the raid, it should be communicated somehow. By the way, should S key be disconnected entirely when there's an encounter? There is no point at waiting during one, unless you want to grind your dodge, first aid and last rites.
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