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Author Topic: Magma finite  (Read 1978 times)

Saiko Kila

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Magma finite
« on: May 19, 2011, 01:33:53 pm »

OK, I know magma is theoretically unlimited, because it flows from edge of map. But I have a setup where topmost level of magma doesn't touch the edge. There is one sea, which forms basins connected on lower levels. But on topmost they are not connected, and even small causeway of adamantine separates the flow. I almost ran out of magma in my basin after a short while. It's 3-4/7, and pumps cannot take it fast enough for my guns. The lower is level of magma the slower is draw. I use stack of pumps to get it out because there's no place for pistons thanks to very convoluted cavern scheme, but I think pumps are better for constant flow. But magma is not constant.

Here how it looks on the top level (big pic):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pictures from Stonesense, topmost level:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One z-level above, where is first of my pomps:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Apparently it doesn't refill. Because it's not pressurized.  I will channel the adamantine causeway, which will give me some more, but I don't know how to make it truly unlimited. How do you make it?
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Marthnn

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 01:42:05 pm »

And I thought magma was pushed from the semi-molten rock up to the natural limit of the magma sea...

That's unfortunate. Channeling probably won't have that much flow. You can add a pump closer to the map edge, with a strait tunnel to direct the magma to your stack. Power it with a long horizontal shaft from the stack. Sure it will take more power, but the flow will be more than sufficient. Lots of planning and digging...
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Crashmaster

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 02:35:28 am »

The magma pipe will refill overtime, magma will spawn in pillars the come up from the surface and spread out.

To achieve good pumping speed your pumps should draw magma from every side but not on the top level. If you dig down you need to breach the pipe to get magma but even if you can breach 10 adjacent blocks flow will still be an issue.

If you are lucky somewhere deep in the magma sea you can find a spot where mineable rock overhangs the magma sea with 20-30 levels of magma reserves above you. If you are real lucky there will be a stalactite of mineable rock that hangs into the magma sea and is wide enough to build a pump stack down. At the bottom of one of these magma can flow to your pump intake square from all sides and from above on all sides as well.

Your pump is in a bad location being too close to the edge, and on the top layer.

I would recommend a re-build using the method in this thread;

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=67905.msg1627359#msg1627359

start in the center and pump that z-level dry (fortifications off the edge of the screen) then hang up/down stairs down into the pipe, build one floor and put the next pump on that. I made a two-wide stair on the side of the pumps instead of putting them on the end as the diagram does not show how half the grey floors are attached to the stairs. Go as many levels deep for as much magma you want at once then let it re-fill which will take some time. Your pumps will need to operate constantly when building it or you'll be overflowing with !!FUN!!

You won't need walls around the stack because the pumps can pick up fluids faster then they can fall away from the pump below it.

The output should be fast enough to run though a channel over to your other pumpstack at the edge of the magmapipe without losing flow.

Saiko Kila

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 03:05:17 am »

And I thought magma was pushed from the semi-molten rock up to the natural limit of the magma sea...

That's unfortunate. Channeling probably won't have that much flow. You can add a pump closer to the map edge, with a strait tunnel to direct the magma to your stack. Power it with a long horizontal shaft from the stack. Sure it will take more power, but the flow will be more than sufficient. Lots of planning and digging...

Thanks. I was thinking about building into magma sea from above, after depleting current level of magma. But that would be dangerous, and in need of constant attention - because of creatures. Not really funny. Or using water to build walls. But your idea should work, though I'd need more than one pump - z-level below is also cut off. Since my pumpstack is devised to use only 2/3 of power of my reactor I should be able to transfer enough power through wooden axles. I hope they won't burn.

The magma pipe will refill overtime, magma will spawn in pillars the come up from the surface and spread out.

Magma pipe is another name for magma sea? I'm pretty sure that the topmost level in my locations doesn't refill, because I have left it for a year. I think that square with Magma Flow may refill, as opposed to Empty Space.

Quote
To achieve good pumping speed your pumps should draw magma from every side but not on the top level. If you dig down you need to breach the pipe to get magma but even if you can breach 10 adjacent blocks flow will still be an issue.

If you are lucky somewhere deep in the magma sea you can find a spot where mineable rock overhangs the magma sea with 20-30 levels of magma reserves above you. If you are real lucky there will be a stalactite of mineable rock that hangs into the magma sea and is wide enough to build a pump stack down. At the bottom of one of these magma can flow to your pump intake square from all sides and from above on all sides as well.

Your pump is in a bad location being too close to the edge, and on the top layer.

I would recommend a re-build using the method in this thread;

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=67905.msg1627359#msg1627359

start in the center and pump that z-level dry (fortifications off the edge of the screen) then hang up/down stairs down into the pipe, build one floor and put the next pump on that. I made a two-wide stair on the side of the pumps instead of putting them on the end as the diagram does not show how half the grey floors are attached to the stairs. Go as many levels deep for as much magma you want at once then let it re-fill which will take some time. Your pumps will need to operate constantly when building it or you'll be overflowing with !!FUN!!

You won't need walls around the stack because the pumps can pick up fluids faster then they can fall away from the pump below it.

The output should be fast enough to run though a channel over to your other pumpstack at the edge of the magmapipe without losing flow.

My stack is in fact near middle of the map. This is just the edge of on one of "lakes", but they are all connected, two z-levels below. But yeah, if I wasn't forced to attend other experiments I would use your method to build into sea. Heck, later I'll probably will do it out of curiosity. But that number of idlers in my screenshot is unusual, I have no more than 5 idlers normally, unless they are finished with something.

EDIT: Oh, and the location is chosen by coincidence. I was digging a a vertical shaft looking for magma and found SMR. Then I made some horizontal shafts one level higher and found SMR. Then again and again. Finally I got minable rock five levels higher and that was the place on top most level of magma sea. But probably there are breaches in SMR somewhere, so maybe I'll find them.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 03:17:48 am by Saiko Kila »
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Crashmaster

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 03:22:25 am »

I miss-spoke you have a magma-sea, a magma-pipe is like a vertical pipe with perfectly vertical walls that ends in a magma pool in a cavern or a volcano on the surface.

what type of tiles are at the very bottom of the magma sea under where your lakes are?

I didn't mean to have the pump in the middle of the map but to be taking magma from the middle of the lake. If it is on the edge magma can only flow into the tile you're taking it out of from one side. Since magma flows slowly it will drain the one side of the lake before the magma from the other side can flow over there.

Saiko Kila

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 01:32:41 pm »

I miss-spoke you have a magma-sea, a magma-pipe is like a vertical pipe with perfectly vertical walls that ends in a magma pool in a cavern or a volcano on the surface.

what type of tiles are at the very bottom of the magma sea under where your lakes are?

I didn't mean to have the pump in the middle of the map but to be taking magma from the middle of the lake. If it is on the edge magma can only flow into the tile you're taking it out of from one side. Since magma flows slowly it will drain the one side of the lake before the magma from the other side can flow over there.

I see.  I'm pumping magma from the first tile I uncovered, which incidentally is on edge of the "lake". And it is near my vertical shaft.

The very bottom of visible part of magma sea is made mostly of SMR. Actually it's not quite bottom but edges only, because I can see only some of the edges. However, some tiles which are on the bottom are made of diorite. The sea looks different than I was expecting. It's quite rough end uneven. Stalactites and stalagmites of kind. It would be nice to explore it, but dwarves are not divers, unfortunately.
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utuki

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Re: Magma finite
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2011, 04:00:09 pm »

I would channel water to make obsidian level to pump one level lower.
If you are worried about wooden axels build them from neitherwood, its magmasafe.
Magma creatures seem totally unagressive in current versions. And you can just install grate.
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