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Author Topic: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.  (Read 15037 times)

Legless

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So, let's talk about psychological trauma traits.
As wiki says there are four states (sensitive dwarf >is getting used to tragedy >is a hardened individual. >doesn't really care about anything anymore.)

According my initial empiric data, I can draw some conclusions.
- In order to reach the hardest trauma Urist should witness 2-5 deaths. Quantity exactly depends on relationships with a victim and, probably, his personal traits (friendliness, stress and so on)
The easiest way to reach last stage - order fresh meat recruits to eleminate ambush or FB. Those, who survived, gain their status after depression. It's obvious.
- Dwarfs with trauma react feebly on negative thoughts and, probably, on positive. The last one is just a supposition due to always content/happy mood of these dwarfs (even if everyone are exctatic or in a tantrum spiral). I should do more accurate !Science! with Dwarf Therapist and find approximate 'don't fucking care' factor.
- Dwarfs with trauma CAN throw tantrum. But it was really hard to drive 'doesn't care dwarf' mad, but possible. Victim of science were only pet, only friend, ten acquaintances. The instruments: atom smasher, starvation, vermin, injuries and smth I can't remember.

So, summing up, these dwarfs are backbone of fortress. Unfortunately I couldn't find any negative consequences of trauma. "Doesn't really care about anything anymore" sounds like a personal blessing of Armok, though it's a fucking morbid.

If anyone have more info about subject - you are welcome!
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o_O[WTFace]

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 01:07:24 am »

I have heard of people sticking their butcher shops in the meeting hall to desensitize the entire population.  Does butchery deaths or personally killing enemies and animals have any effect? 
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Legless

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 02:12:29 am »

I usually assign butchery to low-useful dwarfs (2/3 of all) and have looked through their screens. No one, exept few dwarfs have it. I think, butchery is not that kind of killing, whichs lead to trauma, otherwise butchers should be always upset. On the other hand I have heard about puppyfalls in the meeting hall, it works. I think, to gain effect, the friendly creature must suffer before death.

Now about personal killings. Starting from this, I'm confused. I have two squads, where dwarfs 'don't care', they have more than 30 kills each. I have three dwarfs, who are guarding the caverns. They have a lot of frags too, but have no trauma, also they absolutely exactly didn't witness death. And I have some civilians with 'don't care too'. And dwarf, who had lost his wife and daughter with clear mind.
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Urist McCyrilin

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 01:32:56 am »

Poor Dwarves. Why are most DF players so sociopathic?
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nanomage

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 03:58:16 am »

I have heard of people sticking their butcher shops in the meeting hall to desensitize the entire population.  Does butchery deaths or personally killing enemies and animals have any effect? 
from my experience, it doesn't seem to. I have only seen this in military - those who kill many sentient creatures in melee will get the trait. My marksdwarves rarely have that, by they rarely rack up their kill count either, so that's unclear.
The only sure way to give this to your dwarves is to make them kill hostile sentient creatures, which seem to be abundant in most forts.
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Legless

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 08:32:48 am »

Quote
Poor Dwarves. Why are most DF players so sociopathic?
I don't know about others, but I'm just trying to feel myself a GLaDOS.

2nanomage
The only sure way to recieve evidence is to prevent friendly deaths in battles. I can't do this as I have minimum 10 casualties before first siege (Fortress Defence mod and handmade orks).
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Nidokoenig

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 08:46:38 am »

From what I remember about talk about dwarf hardening, only violent deaths count, not butchery. What does work is dropping a few dozen chickens into the dining hall from 10 z-levels above, coating everyone in splatter and maxing their trauma counters out.
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Triaxx2

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 10:06:51 am »

The above post inspires me to design and construct a chicken dropping mechanism capable of dropping multiple dozens of chickens from no less than 20 z-levels.

I <3 The above post.
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celem

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 12:53:07 pm »

I've always been so convinced that butchery in my meeting hall was contributing.  While butchering a dead animal doesnt help I really thought that slaughter (strike down tame animals) did contribute.

On the other hand I've also always made use of drop-zones surrounding my glass walled dining room so its hard to be sure whats desensitizing my guys.  One of them works, my 225 dwarf fort is at 85% doesnt care
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FrisianDude

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 01:32:59 pm »

The above post inspires me to design and construct a chicken dropping mechanism capable of dropping multiple dozens of chickens from no less than 20 z-levels.

I <3 The above post.
Puppies would be better in my case.
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khearn

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 06:45:21 pm »

Poor Dwarves. Why are most DF players so sociopathic?
Asks the person whose avatar is a unicorn with a bleeding teddy bear impaled on its horn. :)
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Have them killed. Nothing solves a problem quite as effectively as simply having it killed.

nanomage

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 07:12:08 pm »

Quote
Poor Dwarves. Why are most DF players so sociopathic?
I don't know about others, but I'm just trying to feel myself a GLaDOS.

2nanomage
The only sure way to recieve evidence is to prevent friendly deaths in battles. I can't do this as I have minimum 10 casualties before first siege (Fortress Defence mod and handmade orks).
Yes you're right and i do so. In my current fort i have a small militia of 8 adamantine dorfs with typical kill counters of 1-6 gob. One of them doesn't care anymore, but he had been from the very immigration, so it doesn't count. 1 immigrated as a hardened individual too.
Apart from this, i have 3 tender souls, 2 dwarves who are getting used to tragedy and 1 hardened individual. The only friendly death they ever saw was a grazer pet which died from hunger in their barracks. None of them ever saw a dwarf die. I have a siege right now so i guess i should take an opportunity and make some observations. Here's the initial state:
Amost, Swordsdwarf, 7 kills, doesn't care (migrated as such)
Endok, Swordsdwarf, 0 kills, no trauma
Adil, Swordsdwarf, 9 kills, getting used
Asen,  Swordsdwarf, 7 kills, getting used
Mafol, Swordsdwarf, 5 kills, no trauma
Rith,  Swordsdwarf, 1 kill, hardened individual (don't know why, he had participated in earlier fights though, had seen goblins die and had been severely injured. Desc says he can hangle stress)
Mosus, Marksdsdwarf, 1 kill, no trauma
Nomal,  Marksdwarf, 1 kill, hardened individual (migrated as such)
 If i'm ok at defeating the siege i'll update with their state after they chopped more gobs.
EDIT: okay, there are some elite bowgobs and a crossbow squad so i don't know if i sill be able to finish them off flawlessly, but here's the little update after dispatching a troll squad.
Amost, no changes
Endok, +2 kills, getting used
Adil, +1 kill, getting used
Asen, no change
Mafol, +3 kills, getting used
Rith, +2 kills, hardened individual
Mosus, no change
Nomal, no change
Looks like killing hostile sentients is indeed a way to gain trauma. This way, actually, it looks more like a blessing, since your soldiers gain positive thoughts from killing enemies and don't gain negative thoughts later if they happen to lose friends.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 07:42:39 pm by nanomage »
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outofpractice

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011, 02:44:06 am »

Just put a large z pit above your meeting all (20-30z lvls) and pitch goblins / kittens off it. Soon your dwarves wont care about a damn thing, which is good. stops spirals when your axelords and hammerlords get owned by a lowly goblin thief.
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Legless

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2011, 10:10:33 pm »

2nanomage
Awesome! That's a !Science!
So, hostile deaths harden dwarfs (I checked it too, but doubt in purity of my expiriment).
And puppyfalls.
Therefore we've lost possible tanrum spirals. Boooooring!
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Table Turning

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Re: Urist McNorris doesn't really care about anything anymore.
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2011, 10:21:37 pm »

I've noticed a single dwarf with this trait.

But...
Erm...



She didn't kill anything, she just got stuck in the way of a troll.
The troll proceeded to stick his thumbs in her eyes, among other things.

No dorfs died in the attack either, but some other ones got injured (she had the worst injuries).
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