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Author Topic: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves  (Read 18575 times)

Noir

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2011, 08:17:22 pm »

Girlinhat answered the second question. How to execute it:
- Place a 'N'ote on the shooting platform and another at the ammo pile.
- Press 'r' in the 'N'ote screen to get the route editing up.
- Add those 2 notes as waypoints to the route.
- Now go to the military schedule screen.
- Create an order on the schedule (for an entirely new alert if you want) to use that patrol route you just defined.
- Set marksdwarf squads to that alert level.

Doesn't work for me.

First, the majority of dwarfs don't stay to fire: they wander uselessly back and fort the two waypoints, interrupting fire to go to reload even if they still have bolts left; when I give the "patrol" order should I specify all dwarfs as "minimum"?
But worst of all, under circumstances yet to be understood the dwarfs ignore the second patrol point (well out of sight of the enemies) and go in melee range with them.

Am I to specify the patrol order in conjunction with a burrow?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Psieye

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2011, 11:03:47 pm »

Girlinhat answered the second question. How to execute it:
- Place a 'N'ote on the shooting platform and another at the ammo pile.
- Press 'r' in the 'N'ote screen to get the route editing up.
- Add those 2 notes as waypoints to the route.
- Now go to the military schedule screen.
- Create an order on the schedule (for an entirely new alert if you want) to use that patrol route you just defined.
- Set marksdwarf squads to that alert level.

Doesn't work for me.

First, the majority of dwarfs don't stay to fire: they wander uselessly back and fort the two waypoints, interrupting fire to go to reload even if they still have bolts left; when I give the "patrol" order should I specify all dwarfs as "minimum"?
But worst of all, under circumstances yet to be understood the dwarfs ignore the second patrol point (well out of sight of the enemies) and go in melee range with them.

Am I to specify the patrol order in conjunction with a burrow?
Where is your shooting platform? What sort of path do they need to take to get into melee range with enemies?

Also, the dwarves will go back to reload if there's nothing in range even briefly. Use in conjunction with station orders if you want to ensure they stick around while waiting for the next batch of enemies. I was testing this under a constant stream of enemies. Constant because they had to keep walking to the start of the 'shooting range' due to retracting bridges.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Noir

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2011, 06:00:22 am »

I will post the layout later during the day when I get the chance. I have a siege going on, and I defined all the notes and routes and way points and alerts before it, intending to test it.

I will keep testing and trying until everything works fine.
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Fredd

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2011, 10:26:48 am »

I wonder if gunports behind fortifications would work. Set up some floodgates behind fortifications. Open to fire, close to resupply.
 Latest experiment has proven something odd. Set up 4 stockpiles, no bins, that hold 100 copper bolts. Assigned 100 copper bolts as C. The archer would always restock at the stockpile containing the first hundred bolts. Would not use any of the others, even with being made of the same material, and quality, as the first bolts assigned.
 Another question is if the Ambush skill is actually of importance for marksdwarves. I believe they might be using ranged. It could be why some rush into melee, while others stay back, and fire. Noticed this odd behavior with kill orders
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kotekzot

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2011, 03:51:55 pm »

Wait, what? Ambusher is how well they sneak, which is only used by hunters in fortress mode.
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Psieye

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2011, 07:18:35 pm »

I wonder if gunports behind fortifications would work. Set up some floodgates behind fortifications. Open to fire, close to resupply.
It works, as that was how I used to operate marksdwarves before I stumbled upon the patrol method.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Noir

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2011, 07:54:11 pm »

If by "gunports" you mean raising drawbridges in front of the fortifications, I have them in place:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(old pictures, now I have them in front of each and any fortification)

Just, I hope I won't need to use them for reload - just to protect my dwarves when elite bowman/crossbowmen arrive.
Details of my problem are coming...
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Noir

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2011, 08:15:49 pm »

Right. So this is my current layout:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pleaes note that the reload waypoint is on another floor - I have all the routes/schedules/alerts set up nicely. In fact, it "sort of" work as it should.

As you can see I have set the waypoint BEHIND the fortifications, yet some dwarves still attempt to walk in front of them, right on top of the bridges that constitute my gunports.

However, I believe I understand why: a similar situation happened when I set up a patrol route inside my danger room and when I assign move orders; it would appear that dwarves subject to a patrol injunction move in a range of 3 tiles from the ordered waypoint; if the area on the other side of the fortifications cannot be pathed to, they will not, and they will wander around the fortifications edge until they see an enemy and thus start firing at them. But in my case, there is a path to the bridge outside the fortifications, and this path goes through my serpentine of traps and into the enemies. Hence, my problem.

If this is really the case, I assume that making the bridge unreachable should solve the issue.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 08:19:23 pm by Noir »
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Fredd

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2011, 08:26:38 pm »

Gunports are floodgates behind fortifications. When they are shut, and cannot see the gobbos, the archers will reload.
 Ambush skill is used by stinky gobbos. Was just wondering if a dwarf with good ambush skills is stationed, will it continue to fire, and reload, as long as the gobbos cannot detect them. This is worthy of experimentation. Am going to try it with kill orders
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 08:29:39 pm by Fredd »
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Should you fail to comply, strict !!disciplinary actions!! will be taken. Also, we feel we should remind you that one of the "criminals" on your list is the chief medical dwarf. If he ends up too badly injured to do his job, you will be fired. Out of a magma cannon.
Sincerely,
The Administration

Darkmere

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2011, 12:02:07 am »

Ambush is only used by hunters and sneaking is broken on attack. Ambush skill determines how close a creature can get to attack before it's detected. At least I think it does.
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Psieye

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2011, 07:27:39 am »

As you can see I have set the waypoint BEHIND the fortifications, yet some dwarves still attempt to walk in front of them, right on top of the bridges that constitute my gunports.

However, I believe I understand why: a similar situation happened when I set up a patrol route inside my danger room and when I assign move orders; it would appear that dwarves subject to a patrol injunction move in a range of 3 tiles from the ordered waypoint; if the area on the other side of the fortifications cannot be pathed to, they will not, and they will wander around the fortifications edge until they see an enemy and thus start firing at them. But in my case, there is a path to the bridge outside the fortifications, and this path goes through my serpentine of traps and into the enemies. Hence, my problem.

If this is really the case, I assume that making the bridge unreachable should solve the issue.
Oh yes yes, a patrol is basically a repeating set of Move commands. Dwarves never move to exactly the point you give a Move command - they will stick to the same Z-level (I think) but they spread out a bit. This is so a squad isn't all piled up on top of each other in a 1x1 area when you give a move command. To get around this, my shooting platforms were always on a different Z-level to where the goblins were getting shot. Making those bridges inaccessible would solve your problem.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Crazy Cow

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2011, 02:59:34 pm »

I honestly have never had much trouble without a tad of micromanagement. My strategy is to station my dorfs, then wait for them to unload on the enemy. Once they stop firing, I disable their squad (s-a/z-o) and then re-station them. My dorfs reload and go back to shooting things.
However, this is a nice way to avoid micromanagement and up efficiency. Thank you for sharing!

Noir

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2011, 03:06:43 pm »

One more question, as I never bothered to check for this myself; when a marksdwarf is wearing his uniform I assume he also loads the amount of bolts I specified. How do they dealt with stack of bolts of mixed size? For instance, will they just load one stack regardless of the size? Will they split a stack to load just the amount they need, if the only stacks they can get hold of is too large?

Is there any steps I can take to ensure they won't go into battle with an almost empty quiver?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Psieye

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Re: Auto-reloading Marksdwarves
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2011, 04:36:43 pm »

There is no such thing as a "stack too large". The largest stack you can produce is 25 bolts from one metal bar. Bone bolts aren't like in 40d days, they're always produced in stacks of 5 from one bone at a time from a bone stack. A quiver holds... I think I've seen 40 bolts once. They'll deploy with a minimum  of around 12-ish bolts I think.

They only go to reload when they get activated though, so during peacetime it's good to tell them to go station somewhere random once so you know they've loaded up for when the real action time comes.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Noir

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lololol
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2011, 04:46:00 pm »

They only go to reload when they get activated though, so during peacetime it's good to tell them to go station somewhere random once so you know they've loaded up for when the real action time comes.

Interesting - one more reason to begin their patrol with a move command and THEN activate the adequate alert.
By the way, what is the ammunition loadout of your marksdwarves vs squad size? Do you forbid steel bolts when there are just trolls and goblins?
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.
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