Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RedKing]

Afaik, there's such a thing as age of consent (which, for the record, I think it's ridiculously low here at 13. Imo it should be 16 or so) which makes the above described situations not illegal (this comes from hearsay in a convo with three law students a while ago, so don't quote me on this,  though)

There is, but this varies dramatically between localities. In the United States, age of consent is determined by states and in several places is conditionally lowered by parental consent. It's 16 in most places, but for instance in South Carolina it's 14 with parental consent and 18 without. In Virginia, it's 15 with or without. In Hawaii and Idaho, it's 14 with or without. In Utah, it's 16 with parental consent, 18 without. In Kentucky, the age of consent is 16 for females, if the male is 21 or older. Below that, I'm not sure what the threshold is. In Mississippi, the age of consent is 16. However, if the female is over 12, this only applies to virgins. In other words, if she's 13 and has already had sex (which technically would have been illegal), then she's now considered legal. Have fun understanding that loophole.

Incidentally, this is a big part of why there are laws criminalizing "transporting a minor across state lines without parental consent". If you were in Utah and wanted to get freaky with a consenting 14-year old, it would be illegal. Take them across the border into Idaho, and it's legal.

And to be fair the laws do not look at the relative ages. A 60-year old and a 14-year old would be legal in Idaho (with consent, obviously).

[scriver]

Age of being "pants-major" (as they say) is 15 in Sweden, though the law has to "take into account the circumstances", meaning two kids on different sides of (or both below) that line can have consensual sex. 18 to get married though, I believe.

I kinda think the age of consent should be 16, though, with the same circumstance-addition for teenagers.

[G-Flex]

But the age of consent is often ridiculously high, to the point where there can be situations in which the encounter is sometimes initiated by the supposed "victim", because by the time people reach the age of consent in many states they have long, long since stopped being prepubescent (unless they have some extremely severe disease or genetic condition).

Kids initiate stupid things for which they can't be held responsible all the time. Two-year-olds do it. Hell, sometimes even a prepubescent kid can try to initiate sexual contact, if they're screwed up enough through, say, sexual abuse. Whether or not the kid wants to simply isn't the issue here.

Age of being "pants-major" (as they say) is 15 in Sweden, though the law has to "take into account the circumstances", meaning two kids on different sides of (or both below) that line can have consensual sex. 18 to get married though, I believe.

Yeah, in the US there are (usually?) exceptions for couples who exist on both sides of the line but are very close in age (say, a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old when the age of consent is 16).

[Leafsnail]

Also consider that it may be possible for predators to "groom" or "train" children into having sex with them.  That's clearly pretty damn wrong, so I'd say it's a good reason to have statutory rape on the law books.

EDIT: Oh, and what exactly is so bad about Jeremy Bentham?  He wouldn't be great by today's standards and perhaps you don't like the utilitarian aspects, but for an 18th century politician he was pretty progressive (supported gender equality, abolition, decriminalisation of homosexuality, separation of church and state).

[Mindmaker]

Let us rape and murder in order to tell everyone, across the land, how thoroughly we have condemned those acts, and how wise we are as we take the high road.

Quote me saying that I said we should rape and murder pedophiles and rapists? I never condoned such an act. But to say they should be treated with the same respect you treat a regular human being is nonsense. So easy to feel sorry for them when you don't know someone who has been brutally assaulted and taken advantage by one of them. These children are damaged for the rest of their lives. But your right, I should extend my hand to them.

That attitude prevents closet pedophiles and rapists (I mean those who feel the urges, but haven't acted upon them yet) to seek actual help, since they fear being ostracised by society.
I doubt all of them are mindless beasts and some of them might indeed look for help if they only had the possibility.

[Andir]

Kids initiate stupid things for which they can't be held responsible all the time. Two-year-olds do it. Hell, sometimes even a prepubescent kid can try to initiate sexual contact, if they're screwed up enough through, say, sexual abuse.

Kids don't have to be screwed up or be sexually abused to initiate sexual contact... it's part of curiosity and growing.

[Bohandas]

Kids initiate stupid things for which they can't be held responsible all the time. Two-year-olds do it. Hell, sometimes even a prepubescent kid can try to initiate sexual contact, if they're screwed up enough through, say, sexual abuse.

Kids don't have to be screwed up or be sexually abused to initiate sexual contact... it's part of curiosity and growing.

That sounds plausible. I started masturbating before puberty, so that doesn't seem too big a leap.

[MonkeyHead]

Kids initiate stupid things for which they can't be held responsible all the time. Two-year-olds do it. Hell, sometimes even a prepubescent kid can try to initiate sexual contact, if they're screwed up enough through, say, sexual abuse.

Kids don't have to be screwed up or be sexually abused to initiate sexual contact... it's part of curiosity and growing.

That sounds plausible. I started masturbating before puberty, so that doesn't seem too big a leap.

Apologies for the terrible pun, but have you finished yet?

Annnnyway... working with young people has shwon me another effect if the "underage sex" issue. I live and work in an area where our teenage pregancy rate is the highest in all of Europe. Not touching on the legal or biological effects at all, and trying to avoid as many sociological issues as possible, this has a huge impact on the local community. Despite many allowances made (one of which a friend and colleage runs), most of these underage mums fail to gain even a basic high school equivalent level of education, and as such are practically unemployable. This means they either survive on state benefits with state provided housing, or are a "burden" (that word doesnt conveny it right, but I cant come up with a better one) on thier parents for various forms of support. So, basically we have a (large in comparison to other regions) sector of a generation (maybe even 2 in some cases) that drains societies resources, either through the provision made to young parents, or through the schemes in place to prevent the gorwth of the numbers of young parents. Aprocriphally speaking, the children of underage parents are more likley to have kids young themselves, setting up a feedback loop. This to me seems why the age of consent is set to one greater than the compulsory education age - fine, have a baby young, but at least have the tools and resources to bring it up please.

[kaijyuu]

A much better solution to that, I think, is making contraception, sex education, and (if need be) abortions highly prolific. Then you won't have teenage mothers, unless they actually think themselves capable.

[MonkeyHead]

Thats just it - all teenagers are exposed to sexual health education from the age of 13 delivered in a frank and honest manner, and have access to free sexual health clinics, free contraception, and confidential and free advice - all through the NHS and local educational systems. This is manly to counteract the high rate of teenage pregnancy, but there is no sign of it working. There seems little reason why this region has such a high rate - its no less affluent than bordering regions, and educational performance is overall slightly better than our neighbours. It seems glib to put it down to teenage experimentation.

[Vector]

EDIT: Oh, and what exactly is so bad about Jeremy Bentham?

Panopticon.

[shadenight123]

an italian newspaper once circled a new of thirteen years old females who had a real and working circle of micro-prostitutions (showing tits, or genitals, or the like) in exchange for money, brand items, or such.
point is, in the fifties it wasn't like that, in the twenties? in the victorian age?
the word in italian is "pudore", and its the thing lacking. it just seems to be the vogue of the century to go more naked as possible, and more looking as a *pronst* as possible.
problem is that this thing lacks and is seen by other, who are then influenced by that. you read everytime of girls who go anoressic or who follow stupid diets just to look like their stars or such.
if everyone was informed about the risks, instead of having parents (because when you're young, it's the parents duty to inform and educate you in that regard) who go with "flowers and bees" or who simply shrug it off "for when he/she is older" then that's the problem. Because parents can't realize that kids speak in schools. and that schools hold far more than just the same generation of childrens. there are different classes, of different kids, a thirteen years old who see a group of sixteen years old looking at a playboy is interested. Not for the material, but for what the material represents: a way to blend in.
it's the reason some say "not to smoke because it's cool and other do it" and "don't do drugs just to blend in" point is, while mothers and fathers point out immediately to children that "you should not smoke, see that women/man over there? he is going to get lung cancer for that!" (extremism in metaphors, parents are expert in that) or "don't do drugs, you risk overdose and death, or end up a homeless bum on the street, or raped in a disco" , for sex, parents wait. they wait until they think a kid is old enough to understand.
point is, kids can't always go with kids their own age, there will be younger and older ones around.
and each kids wants to do the "grown-up" stuff. to blend in with grown-ups.
information, given fast, quick, and painlessly precise. with all pros and cons and reason, is the best way to avoid problems. an informed person is far less likely to have problems or face consequences than a non informed one.

[RedKing]

Fantastic article by the New Yorker detailing how the "money = free speech" ruling, and the deep pockets of a single arch-conservative has completely warped NC state politics. While this is looking just at my state, I can't help but think similar stories are playing out all across the US.

[Descan]

Posting to watch and say hey!

I'm a few dozen pages back (in the 50-post-per-page format) so I won't be able to offer anything for a while. But I'm just saying hi to all you fine people.

[Pnx]

Posting to watch and say hey!

You know, you can just hit the "notify" button. It bothers me how people keep doing this.