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Author Topic: Marksdwarf Pillboxes  (Read 17083 times)

Ross Vernal

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2011, 01:57:16 pm »

Hm.... I usually dig out a trench around my pillboxes and flood it with water so the marksmen cannot stand right next to the fortifications and return fire.

Honestly, if I were to set up a dedicated pillbox team, I'd set ballistas on the bottom level,  dig out a 3-wide tunnel leading directly to it, and have marksdorfs firing through fortifications from 1 Z-level up with the siege weaponry firing at the same level.


Hmm.... set a drawbridge, linked to plates, so when the invaders get close, the siegebox becomes enclosed, leaving a slightly shorter path up onto a killing field on the same level as the box... hm. Must try this sometime.
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Qirex

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2011, 02:25:15 pm »

I've personally never delved into siege engines, and so I can't comment on that section. While moats may work perfectly in vanilla, all moats should be empty trenches (preferably with spikes at the bottom) because there are a couple enemy civs with [SWIMS_INNATE]. Channeling out a perimeter from the complex seems like a pretty good idea now that you mention it, serving as a way for dodgers to fall to their deaths and keep fire imps (They wield dragonfire, which will melt structures) at bay. Thanks for the idea.
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2011, 03:06:51 pm »

dragonfire, which will melt structures

...Huh, I don't recall this from the dragons I've slain. Maybe it's a mod difference or perhaps you're building structures out of non-safe material?

I mostly use catapaults as a form of rock management, but I've put together a few ballista hallways and fired *steel* at them. It is satisfying.

Hell, one might as well dig 3-Z level deep holes in a pattern on this trench-approach thing.

Code: [Select]
XOXOXO
OXOXOX
XOXOXO

You can dodge an arrow but you can't dodge gravity.

...Heck, one could even set a repeater up to a bunch of menacing spikes below. If the fall doesn't kill it, trying to walk back across the DOOMFLOOR all the way to the beginning of the trap will.

Or you can make an atomsmasher or something, but DOOMFLOOR lets you harvest magical goblin ore and delicious future *elf roasts*.
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Qirex

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2011, 03:10:35 pm »

It could be a mod difference, but from reports I've seen, fire imps' breath attacks will melt all structures, including magma safe ones.

And the trench approach is an amazing idea, will definitely use in my next fort.
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2011, 03:30:28 pm »

Make it, oh, 11 tiles from your siege room?

And you can probably intelligent-design it. Burrow your siege operators and engineers there, and set it up so you have three training catapaults set to Fire At Will at a wall. Have the Z-level drop at the end of that wall drop rocks right next to your stone-crafters, and dig out a quantum stockpile near easy reach of the mules. Designate a gulag and engage in mass-dumping.

Shouldn't take super long to get a bunch of Legends that way.
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Qirex

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2011, 04:21:50 pm »

So do I just set up a catapult on the bottom level, of each tower, fortify it and engage in massive stone spamming?
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2011, 05:43:26 pm »

That is an option, but the last I checked, catapaults didn't do much damage. I'm going to test science to see if it is possible to get rocks covered in a poison extract and hurl them at enemies at some point, but...

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Catapult#Ballista_battery

Basically, that for the entrance, using ballistas. You can make the animal watchtowers at the start of the trench

I'd create my room to the east and north, and use it to hold a workshop, stockpile, bedrooms, and dining room. Catapaults would probably be right next to the ammo depository for the ballistas, and would probably fire South into a wall which drops into a channel X Z-levels deep, where X is the amount of levels down your stonecrafters and masons are.

Or you could just not bother with the siege, but it's fun to have civilians do something useful during an invasion.
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ulan

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2011, 02:48:53 am »

Great design, but I've done some personal modifications to the design (I use 0.1, I've so far had no need for bridges due to my design)
Code: [Select]
z-0
WWWWWWW
WLLLLLW
WLLLLLW
WLLLLXW
WWWWWWW

z-1 and above [archer level(s)]
WWWWWWW
WBLLLLW
WLFFFLW
WLLLLXW
WWWWWWW

Roof level
LLLLLLL
LLLLLLL
LLLLLLL
LLLLLLL
LLLLLLL
W= constructed wall
L= Floor, natural or constructd
F= fortification
X= up/down stair
B=Bed

Wait, fortifications only in the middle of the room? How does that work, if the archer room is walled wouldnt they be unable to shoot from it?
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2012, 05:44:42 am »

You could use a Necromancer contained beneath a corpse pit to keep a bunch of zombies exposed to enemy archers. They will waste all their ammo on the reanimating zombies, allowing your marksdwarves to surface and take them all down safely from a distance.
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Altaree

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2012, 12:26:21 pm »

Question about multiple ammo stockpiles:
Since squads are assigned reloads from the military menu, have you noticed dwarves skipping the closest stockpile and traveling to one under a different tower?
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Sutremaine

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2012, 01:26:43 pm »

Arise, thread!

I don't think you can have multiple stockpiles all pulling from one. You can have one pulling from many, or a chain where #5 pulls from #4, which pulls from #3, etc. But a chain means a lot of hauling from one pile to the next to get an item from the head to the tail.
In case anyone's reading this thread for the first time and not noticing the dates, you can have multiple stockpiles pulling from one now.
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katwithk

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2012, 07:33:15 am »

This topics a bit old, but I've found something with the pillboxes-plus-bridge-walls design that may be worth note:

Don't link all four bridge/walls to the same lever.

By linking them seperately, and burrowing an engineer below (or back at the home base!) to throw the switches, you can control the pillbox's LoS and cone of fire.

The pillboxes are equipped below with their own food supply, dining, ammo dumps, and quarters. They are only accessible via an underground tunnel to the fort, which is drawbridge'd  because I'm a paranoid freak and I'm not sure exactly how fliers and fortifications interact quite yet.
I'm not sure how fast dwarves consume food and drink, but due to excess in my fort they are well stocked.

Still working on finding something productive for the engineer to do when no levers need be pulled.

My defense system is layered. Closeable pillboxes stand guard at each of the three distinct portions of the map (these portions can be isolate from each of the two others and my fort. I can isolate any combination of them, this allows caravans and seiges that happen on different ends of the map to take place simultaneously) behind the animal watchtowers and before the Outer Wall.

Within the outer wall are my farms and pastures, as well as my main entrance. This courtyard, within a year, will also be a killing field. a ballista battery coverable by a bridge will be built in such a way that the entire courtyard is effectively covered. Anything that is let into the courtyard during a siege will not return under its own power.

Next crazy military-related idea: fort-seperated dugouts beyond the watchtower perimeter with small melee squads, able to take advancing enemies from behind and/or pounce upon enemy markscreatures.
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Ruhn

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 12:29:41 pm »

I think I read this topic the first time around, or it could just have been a similar one.

I'm using floodgates for shutters inside the fortress, but bridges for outside sounds like a good idea since there is just one thing to link to the lever.  Speaking of levers, if we are working with the gauntlet of choke points idea then a simple approach would be to link all bridges that make up the "overlapping shooting arcs" to the same lever.  Limited firing arc Pillboxes could be further upgraded to include Sally Forth capabilities on a wall which is not part of the firing arcs.

Creating the choke points with walls and trenches may be the most difficult thing, depending on the landscape.

katwithk

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2012, 03:03:50 pm »

Bridges are also immune to building destroyers, unlike floodgates. Though I believe are vulnerable to dragonfire (I don't think there is anything stable at temperatures of 50k degrees urist)
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Crazy Cow

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Re: Marksdwarf Pillboxes
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 03:16:55 pm »

Nether Cap, interestingly enough.
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