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Author Topic: Dig Deeper DIAMOND [Version: 1.2] *+750 ITEMS OF NEW CONTENT*  (Read 51867 times)

The13thRonin

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 12:09:07 pm »

I've noticed this mod is quite jumpy.
the game will work for 2-3 secs normally, freeze for 1/2 a sec, then repeat. :(

If you're using the pre-installed version I have set the graphical update to 25 and left the thing at 2D. You might want to change to Standard or whatever other configuration you had upon vanilla release? I have not encountered this problem nor do I know of anyone else encountering it?

Oh and I set the priority to HIGH. You might want to reduce the priority to NORMAL as if you have a multi-core machine it could be 'jumping' CPUs causing the lag.

This is all in the DATA/INIT file.

I wish to incorporate the orcs from this mod into this other one I'm using. Is copy and pasting the 'entity_orcs.txt' file from the Dig Deeper raws over to the other mod's raws enough?

Edit: OK, it did not work at all. I also C+P the language file over, and still nothing. What else should I do?

Is there some reason you're no longer using Dig Deeper GOLD in favour of another mod? Is there something I can change to keep your patronage? :(
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 12:10:38 pm by The13thRonin »
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Dig Deeper DIAMOND - 750+ items of new content including; new plants, new creatures, new metals, new woods, new gems, new stones, new crafts and much, much more.

Kon

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 07:06:46 pm »

Your mod looks incredible. Lots of new toys and a ton of new variety :). I did notice something when looking through the raws that might be a typo, it looks like under your reaction for making red brass its set up to pump out 1,500 bars, instead of the 10 bars it looks like you want it to. I haven't tried it yet though, so I very well could be wrong. Very cool though, I can't wait to try it :).
Oh wow that's an embarrassing mistake!! Thanks for picking that up I will fix it and release it under 0.4 as soon as possible.

Shouldn't red brass making and the other reactions in reaction_smelter_DD.txt be listed in entity_default.txt under permitted reactions? i.e.
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:REDBRASS_MAKING]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:NORDIC_GOLD_MAKING]
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Kon

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 07:31:12 pm »

I see chrome in inorganic_metal_DD.txt, but I don't see a reaction for making it in reaction_smelter_DD.txt. It has a very high SOLID_DENSITY, so it should make a good bashing weapon.
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_DivideByZero_

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2011, 08:09:14 pm »

How did you even conceive of making chromium denser than tungsten?! (That wasn't meant as an insult)

Anyway, I noticed that a lot of the metals have completely false material properties. Cobalt is completely equal to iron, and the aforementioned chromium is denser than tungsten. Titanium is actually a fair bit weaker than steel (see: http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/titanium.html) and much harder to make. I realize that you're not actually going for an overtly complicated and realistic mod, but the fact remains that cobalt and titanium have pretty much the same role as iron and steel, respectively, without adding in anything to differentiate them other than a few minute properties.

For example, smelting cobalt in real life can generate noxious arsenic fumes, hence the name cobalt... "kobold" based off the german word for goblin.

All in all, the additions do vary the game a fair bit, and it really does maintain a vanilla feel, but I really think you could've done a bit more to vary the content so that it changes the experience. Good job with the orcs though, they add a better challenge to the game, albeit they really are just overpowered goblins.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:11:27 pm by _DivideByZero_ »
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Pan

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2011, 09:46:15 pm »

Is there some reason you're no longer using Dig Deeper GOLD in favour of another mod? Is there something I can change to keep your patronage? :(

 I have about three Dwarf Fortress files I regularly play: Vanilla, Legend of the Forlorn Realms, and the latest addition: Dig Deeper GOLD. I play all three regularly (it's the summer holiday) and I thought Vanilla needed something to spice it up.

 So don't worry, my patronage here is as certain as ever.  :D
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The13thRonin

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2011, 01:31:06 am »

Your mod looks incredible. Lots of new toys and a ton of new variety :). I did notice something when looking through the raws that might be a typo, it looks like under your reaction for making red brass its set up to pump out 1,500 bars, instead of the 10 bars it looks like you want it to. I haven't tried it yet though, so I very well could be wrong. Very cool though, I can't wait to try it :).
Oh wow that's an embarrassing mistake!! Thanks for picking that up I will fix it and release it under 0.4 as soon as possible.

Shouldn't red brass making and the other reactions in reaction_smelter_DD.txt be listed in entity_default.txt under permitted reactions? i.e.
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:REDBRASS_MAKING]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:NORDIC_GOLD_MAKING]

You're 100% right, total oversight. Will be fixed for 0.5. Thank you very much!!

I see chrome in inorganic_metal_DD.txt, but I don't see a reaction for making it in reaction_smelter_DD.txt. It has a very high SOLID_DENSITY, so it should make a good bashing weapon.

Chrome is smelted straight from the ore which means it doesn't need a reaction as it's not an alloy (fusion of two or more ores or metals).

How did you even conceive of making chromium denser than tungsten?! (That wasn't meant as an insult)

Anyway, I noticed that a lot of the metals have completely false material properties. Cobalt is completely equal to iron, and the aforementioned chromium is denser than tungsten. Titanium is actually a fair bit weaker than steel (see: http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/titanium.html) and much harder to make. I realize that you're not actually going for an overtly complicated and realistic mod, but the fact remains that cobalt and titanium have pretty much the same role as iron and steel, respectively, without adding in anything to differentiate them other than a few minute properties.

For example, smelting cobalt in real life can generate noxious arsenic fumes, hence the name cobalt... "kobold" based off the german word for goblin.

All in all, the additions do vary the game a fair bit, and it really does maintain a vanilla feel, but I really think you could've done a bit more to vary the content so that it changes the experience. Good job with the orcs though, they add a better challenge to the game, albeit they really are just overpowered goblins.

Oversight on the chrome being overpowered issue. Fixed for V0.5. Cobalt pretty much is the same strength as iron in dig deeper and titanium is only slightly better than steel and much harder to make 2 in 5 chance of successfully smelting it. As for having completely false properties, I'm going to have to disagree strongly with you there, from my research I have deduced that titanium has a much better weight to power ratio than steel (45% lighter for the same tensile strength) and this is represented in the game via slight tweaks to make it more powerful, after all if you're able to wear or wield 45% more metal then your going to have a slight edge.

Is there some reason you're no longer using Dig Deeper GOLD in favour of another mod? Is there something I can change to keep your patronage? :(

 I have about three Dwarf Fortress files I regularly play: Vanilla, Legend of the Forlorn Realms, and the latest addition: Dig Deeper GOLD. I play all three regularly (it's the summer holiday) and I thought Vanilla needed something to spice it up.

 So don't worry, my patronage here is as certain as ever.  :D

Good to hear :D!
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2011, 02:46:53 am »

Oh goodie, it's back. I had the horrible feeling this mod was wiped off the map forever. I reember this mod from 40d, especially getting curb stomped by orcs.

*sigh* good times, good times.

kingofthescots

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2011, 07:17:00 am »

First off, I just have to say I love this mod! It's kept me playing one fortress longer then ever before! Usually I just get bored and abandon after a few years.

In regards to chrome being overpowered, i was looking through the raws and it doesn't look like it can be made into weapons (no chrome on my current fort, so I can't verify that 100%). Any weapons from it would come from moods, so it's no more overpowered then platinum in that regard.

Secondly, I like that cobalt is equal to iron. Even if it's not realistic, it provides some extra good quality weapons material on maps that otherwise might be too much "fun" to survive on.

Can't wait to see what comes out in the next version of the mod! And what you do when the next version of DF gets released too :D.
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_DivideByZero_

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2011, 12:03:00 pm »

Quote
Oversight on the chrome being overpowered issue. Fixed for V0.5. Cobalt pretty much is the same strength as iron in dig deeper and titanium is only slightly better than steel and much harder to make 2 in 5 chance of successfully smelting it. As for having completely false properties, I'm going to have to disagree strongly with you there, from my research I have deduced that titanium has a much better weight to power ratio than steel (45% lighter for the same tensile strength) and this is represented in the game via slight tweaks to make it more powerful, after all if you're able to wear or wield 45% more metal then your going to have a slight edge.

Cobalt is a nice addition even if the material values are made up and copied from iron. Iron is scarce in DF, so any new weapon metals help. Cobalt also isn't an *ium metal so it sounds like something dwarves or medieval humans would name it, rather than scientists.

I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement though, on the grounds that you really just made up your values instead of doing the research. If you clicked on my link you'll find out that titanium is actually much softer than steel and would make lousy weapons, especially in its pure form. I understand that it's just a game, but I'd like to let you know that in real life, you actually need much more titanium than steel in terms of total volume to get the same tensile strength. This picture should help you get what I mean.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By the way, I believe this link might help: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84247.msg2256565#msg2256565
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Knave

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.4]
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2011, 01:33:34 pm »

A request: I'm not sure if you're doing this or not currently, but can you keep track in the changelog of what you've changed between each update?
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The13thRonin

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2011, 03:26:12 pm »

Quote
Oversight on the chrome being overpowered issue. Fixed for V0.5. Cobalt pretty much is the same strength as iron in dig deeper and titanium is only slightly better than steel and much harder to make 2 in 5 chance of successfully smelting it. As for having completely false properties, I'm going to have to disagree strongly with you there, from my research I have deduced that titanium has a much better weight to power ratio than steel (45% lighter for the same tensile strength) and this is represented in the game via slight tweaks to make it more powerful, after all if you're able to wear or wield 45% more metal then your going to have a slight edge.

Cobalt is a nice addition even if the material values are made up and copied from iron. Iron is scarce in DF, so any new weapon metals help. Cobalt also isn't an *ium metal so it sounds like something dwarves or medieval humans would name it, rather than scientists.

I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement though, on the grounds that you really just made up your values instead of doing the research. If you clicked on my link you'll find out that titanium is actually much softer than steel and would make lousy weapons, especially in its pure form. I understand that it's just a game, but I'd like to let you know that in real life, you actually need much more titanium than steel in terms of total volume to get the same tensile strength. This picture should help you get what I mean.

By the way, I believe this link might help: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84247.msg2256565#msg2256565

I realise you are trying to be helpful and thank you for the link but I take mild offence to your claim that you are aware of the quality or quantity of my research or that the properties are 'made up' (abstracted in certain cases maybe but not made up). As far as I'm concerned the say-so of a significant number of metallurgists who have actually worked with these metals trumps the wild speculation of a few sword-fanatics whose primary 'evidence' seems to come from google or hearsay. If that does not suffice for you then you are under no obligation to use this mod or post in this thread. No disrespect intended.

Ninja edit: You're also assuming that we're talking about the properties of pure titanium vs the properties of steel which is an alloy (chalk and cheese) rather than say the properties of steel vs a titanium-carbon alloy which is what is being simulated by the mod. I can't think of anybody who uses titanium as a metal as is.

Double ninja edit: The 'sword-fanatics' I was referring to were from the other forum Zero cited not fellow bay-12'ers... Just clarifying that.

A request: I'm not sure if you're doing this or not currently, but can you keep track in the changelog of what you've changed between each update?

I don't keep track of every bug-fix purely because the change-log would be spammed with hundreds of confusing messages about changes that occur inside the mod. But if it would be helpful I could attempt to keep a seperate log in the opening post of such changes.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:04:41 pm by The13thRonin »
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Dig Deeper DIAMOND - 750+ items of new content including; new plants, new creatures, new metals, new woods, new gems, new stones, new crafts and much, much more.

Pan

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2011, 03:41:33 pm »


I realise you are trying to be helpful and thank you for the link but I take mild offence to your claim that you are aware of the quality or quantity of my research or that the properties are 'made up' (abstracted in certain cases maybe but not made up). As far as I'm concerned the say-so of a significant number of metallurgists who have actually worked with these metals trumps the wild speculation of a few sword-fanatics whose primary 'evidence' seems to come from google or hearsay. If that does not suffice for you then you are under no obligation to use this mod or post in this thread. No disrespect intended.


 :o

The second last sentence was... quite uncalled for, actually. I mean, he's just trying to help. Debate happens all the time, but was that sour after taste really necessary? Not sure about others, but it all looked like typical forum debate to me till I saw that last sentence.  :-\
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The13thRonin

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2011, 03:44:53 pm »


I realise you are trying to be helpful and thank you for the link but I take mild offence to your claim that you are aware of the quality or quantity of my research or that the properties are 'made up' (abstracted in certain cases maybe but not made up). As far as I'm concerned the say-so of a significant number of metallurgists who have actually worked with these metals trumps the wild speculation of a few sword-fanatics whose primary 'evidence' seems to come from google or hearsay. If that does not suffice for you then you are under no obligation to use this mod or post in this thread. No disrespect intended.


 :o

The second last sentence was... quite uncalled for, actually. I mean, he's just trying to help. Debate happens all the time, but was that sour after taste really necessary? Not sure about others, but it all looked like typical forum debate to me till I saw that last sentence.  :-\

To clarify I was talking about the credibility of his source and not him personally.
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Talanic

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2011, 03:47:50 pm »

Hivedwarf files are at http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4340 - feel free to tweak them however you desire.  The dwarven hive mod tends to be very difficult right now, as the dwarven caravan is turned off so you are basically expected to grow your hive from the two immigrant waves and the seven dwarves you start with. 

The raws there include the playable dwarven hive civ, a rival hive (mostly the same, just has caste ratios bumped so the castes who don't learn military skills don't show up in raiding parties), and the spider-elves (four castes, increasingly monstrous). 

Hive nobles don't mandate, they only Demand, but they need hugely expensive rooms - especially for your militia captains and commander.  Only females can lead military squads, but you don't get that many females and they're needed for other jobs, so good luck. 

It's my intention in the next version to set the pop ratios for all castes to 0, except for basic Drones (can't learn any skills except brewing), and to create reactions that create 'hive jelly' that can advance said drones to more useful castes.  Ideally, I could then make the Hivedwarves' wagon be made of hive jelly, allowing an embarking player to have a useful set of workers from the start.

And regarding the Titanium / Steel debate, DivideByZero seemed (to me) to be inflammatory first - possibly unintentionally.  Please be careful about what you type into discussion, as it's really easy to sound more critical than you actually mean to be.
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Pan

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Re: Dig Deeper GOLD [Version: 0.3]
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2011, 03:53:48 pm »

Eh, whatever. Just keep it friendly. After all, the Bay12 forum is supposed to one of the few more mature and helpful forums out there (compared to several others I've been to (Minecraft forums. Stupid Herobrine...), I'm inclined to agree).
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