Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Girlinhat]

Text-based gameplay FTW.

[Deon]

Time for my obligatory comment about how ASCII is easier for me to play with because I don't need to spend time puzzling out exactly what a tile is supposed to be.

Your argument is wrong. In ASCII, all clothes are [. In graphics, they all look different. Same with other items and some objects, including guns.

[Flying Dice]

Time for my obligatory comment about how ASCII is easier for me to play with because I don't need to spend time puzzling out exactly what a tile is supposed to be.

Your argument is wrong. In ASCII, all clothes are [. In graphics, they all look different. Same with other items and some objects, including guns.

Spoiler: Moderately Off-Topic (click to show/hide)

The items I'll concede readily; they were never my main concern. That is why 'look' functions exist, neh? My main concern is being able to easily identify objects and mobs in the game world without having to stop and look at them, either mechanically or by squinting at them. If I turn onto a street and see four green 'Z's, a cyan Z, and a purple Z, I can instantly think "4 zeds, electrozed, boomer"; if I'm playing with tiles, I have to look closely to tell what they are. If I'm trying to check what a wall is made of, I can tell right away because of the color, where it might not be as clear with tiles. If I want to know how strong a fire is, all I have to do is notice the color of the number. So on and so forth.

Granted, some of that is probably because I'm used to playing with ASCII, but that brings up another, less objective reason for me to prefer ASCII: No matter how nicely done a tileset is, it tends to still be fairly ugly (no offense intended), and that alone can distract from the gameplay. I tend towards a number of points of the spectrum when it comes to graphics: I like games that are ASCII or text-based because they remove a lot of visual clutter and let me play the game; games that have art design (for example: Bastion, Megaman X, etc.) that looks nice (in the context of the medium) without complicating things; and games that are "realistically depicted" enough for the visuals to be an aid rather than a distraction.

It's an entirely personal reason and certainly not one I'd use to argue for or against another individual playing with ASCII or tilesets, but I find them to be both distracting and unhelpful; they aren't simple enough for what I consider to be important information to be available with a glance, but they also aren't sufficiently detailed for everything to be clear without thorough examination. Yes, ASCII tends to limit how easy it is to identify items without using game mechanics, but I prefer being able to look at something and think "That's an X; do I need anything that that might be at the moment?" and then checking to see what it is, as opposed to staring at a tile and trying to decide if it is a shirt, a trenchcoat, a windshield, etc. To me, tilesets fall into a middleground between "Understandable through simplicity" and "Understandable through detail", which likely isn't helped by the fact that they must by their nature attempt to fit the detail of the latter within the space constraints of the former.

:|

On topic: Is there a way to build beyond the limits of the window in the vehicle construction screen? I've been hoping and trying, but haven't found anything.

[Kaje]

I'd just like *some* graphics...

Oh but there are, here, let me show you them. Ain't they beautiful?

If there were not grpahics, you'd just be looking at a blank screen. That would be hard fo sho.


I wasn't kidding about the beautiful thing though, it looks really nice compared to some ugly (not because of skill, because of size restrictions) drawings around that are hard to interpret and often look similar.
And I'd say the only reason people don't like it is because it often comes from very complex gameplay, where game comes first and pretties later. People associate the difficulty in learning to the easily distinguishable graphical features.

Just plain eww, chap.

And you'd be wrong on the only reason people don't like it. For me, it's not the complex gameplay - it's most definitely the ASCII. I've played plenty of very complex games before - hell, Aurora is a prime example - and enjoyed them, but they haven't been ASCII.

It's just not for me!

[Scelly9]

Eh, I prefer ASCII over a tileset any day. I like it for some reason.

[Kaje]

Horses for courses, I guess. Each to their own!

Just roll on the next tileset update!

[GlyphGryph]

I'm weird, in that I kind of abhor ASCII, but I hate most tilesets too.

What I really like is nice abstract tilesets that clearly and uniquely convey an objects uniqueness while being readily identifiable, but still stylized and simple and clear.

[Cthulhu]

With most roguelikes there's too much information on the screen to convey with most tilesets.  Nethack and Angband notably have terrible default tilesets that are far harder to decipher than ASCII.  When you add the opacity of those roguelikes (Angband is a bit better, anything you experience is permanently added to "memory" in your save file, but you're still blind in early encounters.  Nethack is just obscenely opaque about everything)

Crawl strikes me as a roguelike that does well with a tileset.  For one, the tileset is great, going as far as WYSIWYG weapons on monsters (The tile changes depending what the monster is wielding), with big easy to read tiles and a whole bunch of extra enhancements, like mouse support.  Plus, Crawl's very transparent, it gives information readily, so you're never in a Crawl or Nethack situation where you have no idea what this little green iguana thing is until it hisses and now you're turning to stone.

[Leatra]

I'd just like *some* graphics...

Oh but there are, here, let me show you them. Ain't they beautiful?

If there were not grpahics, you'd just be looking at a blank screen. That would be hard fo sho.


I wasn't kidding about the beautiful thing though, it looks really nice compared to some ugly (not because of skill, because of size restrictions) drawings around that are hard to interpret and often look similar.
And I'd say the only reason people don't like it is because it often comes from very complex gameplay, where game comes first and pretties later. People associate the difficulty in learning to the easily distinguishable graphical features.

Just plain eww, chap.

And you'd be wrong on the only reason people don't like it. For me, it's not the complex gameplay - it's most definitely the ASCII. I've played plenty of very complex games before - hell, Aurora is a prime example - and enjoyed them, but they haven't been ASCII.

It's just not for me!

I can't play Aurora It just seems like too much work to manage to actually do something.

About tilesets, people have different tastes. Some people stick with the good ol' ASCII while others don't want to spend their time "looking" at everything. If we are talking about DF, yeah most tilesets are still difficult to understand (while I don't understand how difficult can it be when compared to ASCII) but in Deon's Cataclysm tileset everything is very clear.

Arguing about it would just derail the thread so I'll just shut up here.

[Shades]

About tilesets, people have different tastes. Some people stick with the good ol' ASCII while others don't want to spend their time "looking" at everything. If we are talking about DF, yeah most tilesets are still difficult to understand (while I don't understand how difficult can it be when compared to ASCII) but in Deon's Cataclysm tileset everything is very clear.

It's all about what your used to. I find the DF 'ascii' tileset easy to understand because everything is symbol and colour and I know what they mean. Each time I have tried an art tileset I've looked at the screen and beyond the obvious things like trees and plants I'm lost. This is especially true when telling which dwarves have what skills. However I'm sure if I spend a few hours playing I'd get used to it, but it's easier to spend those hours enjoying the game.

Cataclysm is a much simpler game with regards to information on screen so I can see a transition to a more 'graphical' look being easier. The main point of contention would be distinction of the various creatures.

[Deon]

Hehe, it's the opposite for me. In Cataclysm you have just a few different creatures, so it's easy to identify them by letters/colors. In DF (especially with mods) one cannot simply understand what kind of creature does he see unless he looks at it. And even after that there may simply be not enough letters to show all the different creature types. At the same time common objects like items etc look fine in ASCII because you are only interested in seeing them there, the dwarves will interact with items more than the "ruler" player.

In cataclysm items are the most important thing for your survival, so you need to be able to spot that exact teleporter quickly or not to miss a specific weapon in a hurry. So while creatures are good in ASCII, items are better in tilesets.

Something like that.

And of course you are right, it's all a matter of personal tastes and getting used to something.

And I did not start making a tileset for Cataclysm just because it allows to show items more clearly. I just like making tilesets and I want more people to be able to understand and play this wonderful game (while I can easily play both in ASCII and in graphical mode, some people don't want to or cannot).

[Cthulhu]

It's turn-based.  You have all the time you need to look at and identify every individual item in your line of sight.  There's no "hurry"

[rhesusmacabre]

And I did not start making a tileset for Cataclysm just because it allows to show items more clearly. I just like making tilesets and I want more people to be able to understand and play this wonderful game (while I can easily play both in ASCII and in graphical mode, some people don't want to or cannot).

Yep, the more people willing to try Cataclysm, the better.

So, I've managed to scrounge together enough car parts (2 cars + 1 quad + oddsandends) for some sort of battlewagon. Is there anything crucial I need to know about layout? Do the wheels have to go in the corners, or the engine in a particular place or whatever?

Also, is there any way to recharge a welder without batteries? I'm fine for now, but a renewable method would be great.

[Tiruin]

Also, is there any way to recharge a welder without batteries? I'm fine for now, but a renewable method would be great.

On that note, where does one usually find welders?

I can never even modify the truck I found in my somewhat-ghost town. It's a small village that only has the occasional zombie but has utilitarian stores. Lots of them.

And basically a paradise.

[Cthulhu]

Welders are at hardware stores.  I also vaguely remember seeing them in mines.