Topic: Creating a new race (Read 12262 times)

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2011, 03:13:47 pm »

I guessed that it was hard-coded but since I am creating this creature from scratch will it use the information?
And if it will is it possible to instruct it not to use the hard-coded Dangerous Terrain information with something like a tag?

Andyfuji · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2011, 03:18:03 pm »

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 15, 2011, 03:13:47 pm

I guessed that it was hard-coded but since I am creating this creature from scratch will it use the information?
And if it will is it possible to instruct it not to use the hard-coded Dangerous Terrain information with something like a tag?

No

[SWIMS_INNATE] Will allow them to swim naturally, without the swimming skill.

IT 000 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2011, 03:22:50 pm »

[INTELLIGENT] is both [CAN_SPEAK] and [CAN_LEARN] so you only need the [INTELLIGENT] tag

GreatWyrmGold · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2011, 04:18:10 pm »

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 15, 2011, 03:13:47 pm

I guessed that it was hard-coded but since I am creating this creature from scratch will it use the information?
And if it will is it possible to instruct it not to use the hard-coded Dangerous Terrain information with something like a tag?

No; no, and we would have mentioned it.

Pan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2011, 09:59:40 pm »

I have nothing to add but my support. Don't give up if your confused, keep trying. Be patient and feel free to ask the community for help. Most of those here have been through the situation your in, most got past, and some have made great mods for the community or themselves. Good luck!

nemysisrelpse · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2011, 03:16:58 am »

Maybe this will help, go through it and edit the bits you want to

Here ya go

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2011, 03:38:12 am »

That is brilliant!
Thank you very much indeed.
I will strip out the components that I need in the order that I want so that I can make better sense of it as I go along.

I was planning on having very greate differences between the castes, so great as to almost be sub-species.

Caste: Queen
A slender, somewhat humanoid creature centered on four legs in a radial fashion.
She is the only female in the hive with a 10% birth chance. They DO NOT pair off at all, rather they lay between 10 and 60 fast hatching, fast growing eggs on a few yearly basis.
Exceptionally fast and strong, good at pretty much every skill that is available with all attributes averaging at around 4000.

Caste: Mind
These are large tick-like beings set on six legs with a massive brain and single body piece/head. Their delicate innards are protected only by a thin layer of very fragile chitin that is no real use in combat.
These creatures are the organizers and inventors of the race, with no real ability to perform menial tasks such as mining or building or, for that matter, hauling.
Mental attributes sit at around 3500 with physical attributes as low as 250. Agility is relatively high at 2500.

Caste: Hand
These are dumb, reasonably robust, humanoid insects that are capable of all menial and manual tasks but cannot perform much in the way intellectual work.
Physical attributes averaging at around 3000, with agility down to 2000. Mental attributes sit in the 500 range.

Caste: Blade
These are the soldier caste, with highly thick shells on a crab-like body. They are armed with a pair of versatile grabbing pincers made of three strong prongs.
Physical attributes are high at an average of 3500. Mental attributes are moderate at 2250 and agility is a reasonable 3000.

Would I have to create the CASTEs and then define their bodies and tissues separately?
And is it possible to only allow certain job types per caste or would that bugger it up?
I would like to set it so that MINDs physically cannot perform hauling tasks or gain combat skills. Equally I would like to limit the mental abilities of the HANDs and set BLADEs to pure combat/hunting/fishing abilities.

It is the format of the bodies and tissues bit that I don't get as well.
All this stuff unfortunately:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT:
and I just noticed this - SWIMS_INNATE The creature naturally knows how to swim, as opposed to [SWIMS_LEARNED] below. Currently, an AI bug prevents this from being useful on PC races in fortress mode.

Could I use the Swim_Learned tag and designate that it can never drop below Legendary using the NATURAL_SKILL tag?

nemysisrelpse · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2011, 03:46:30 am »

Ah...
This is the creature, not the civilization
for the civilization might not be possible to make a caste have a specific job, but honestly, i do not know how to mod civilizations
also could i use my version of the insect for my mod.

If you need any help just ask, nemysisrelapse.

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2011, 03:48:59 am »

So long as you change the name and the wording of the description go right on ahead.

Thanks for your input.
Dan.

EDIT:
For the rest of you this is where I am at the mo...
[CREATUR:SHRAAL]
   [DESCRIPTION:A powerful race of devistatingly clever, extreemely addaptable insectoids.]
   [NAME:shraal:shreel:shreen]
   [CASTE_NAME:shraal:shreel:shreen]
   [CREATURE_TILE:1][COLOR:3:0:0]
   [CREATURE_SOLDIER_TILE:2]

   Basic Characteristics of all the castes.

   [INTELLIGENT]
   [TRANCES]
   [BENIGN]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [FLIER]
   [AMPHIBIOUS]
   [HAS_NERVES]

   This is the alternate route so as to get an inate swimming PC, fortress mode creature.
Swim speed depends on caste.

   [SWIMS_LEARNED]
   [NATURAL_SKILL:SWIM:15]

1 -So as far as I can tell I have got most of the generic tags right here. I am not entirely sure that I have set [NATURAL_SKILL:SWIM:15] correctly. Can someone please confirm?
Now I believe I must declare the CASTEs as described above and create a separate body plan for each one with the attributes, skills that they can/cannot have and body plan.
2 -Is it possible to create castes with limited access to the skills tree and will the AI be able to cope with it?
3 -I understand where the body bits/plans are but I don't have a clue how to stick it all together or even exactly which bits I need. Please help.

Jelle · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2011, 05:06:20 am »

Hey

I can't be of much help in the modding since I'm pretty newb at that myself, but I can tell you that, in my experience, the pathing with amphibian creatures can be a bit wonky.

Obviously any inhabitants of your fortress will avoid pathing through water since that behavior seems to be hardcoded, but I've seen that this doesn't apply to any merchants or liasons of your civ visiting your embark.

And you can imagine what happens when a merchant caravan filled with beasts of burden like yaks and mules tries to path through water...
I had to add amphibious to any domestic caravan animals to make sure it didn't end in disaster.

I can also imagine some pretty bizare situations with flying merchants, but I've no first hand experience with that.

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2011, 07:32:29 am »

I have yet another question for you folks.

Is it possible to create an egg that my race will not consider cooking and that does not need to be in a nest box to hatch?
And does the Litter size tag also apply to the number of eggs that are 'produced'?

Since the QUEEN caste will be much the same regardless of wether the others are possible or not I have started tinkering with her.
This is what I have but I am just guessing at most of it and have no clue how to start on the rest of her.
This caste is the one to rule them all!!!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

GreatWyrmGold · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2011, 08:49:21 am »

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 03:38:12 am

That is brilliant!
Thank you very much indeed.
I will strip out the components that I need in the order that I want so that I can make better sense of it as I go along.

You are welcome, and if you still need help, you can ask people who know a lot more than me. I just know the kinds of things that can't be done.

Quote

I was planning on having very greate differences between the castes, so great as to almost be sub-species.

A bit cliche, but a good and interesting one. Makje sure to give each caste its own description tag so you can tell the difference between castes by looking at their descriptions.

Quote

Caste: Queen
A slender, somewhat humanoid creature centered on four legs in a radial fashion.
She is the only female in the hive with a 10% birth chance. They DO NOT pair off at all, rather they lay between 10 and 60 fast hatching, fast growing eggs on a few yearly basis.
Exceptionally fast and strong, good at pretty much every skill that is available with all attributes averaging at around 4000.

Good, but you need a male to fertilize the eggs, and the male needs to be married to the queen if they're civ creatures. You need a "drone" caste that is friendly and useful for only the most basic tasks.
Also, somehow it seems they should have wings or mental abilities or something, but just making them delicate wallflowers that are good at crafting will be more realistic and make them more likely to be specially protected.

Quote

Caste: Mind
These are large tick-like beings set on six legs with a massive brain and single body piece/head. Their delicate innards are protected only by a thin layer of very fragile chitin that is no real use in combat.
These creatures are the organizers and inventors of the race, with no real ability to perform menial tasks such as mining or building or, for that matter, hauling.
Mental attributes sit at around 3500 with physical attributes as low as 250. Agility is relatively high at 2500.

Interesting idea. Maybe, to fit more with the insect theme, these could spit acid (ask around; someone figured out a set of syndrome stuff that closely mimics real-world acid) or poison or something. They would probably also be good craftsmen. Craftsbugs?

Quote

Caste: Hand
These are dumb, reasonably robust, humanoid insects that are capable of all menial and manual tasks but cannot perform much in the way intellectual work.
Physical attributes averaging at around 3000, with agility down to 2000. Mental attributes sit in the 500 range.

Maybe these could be the drones?

Quote

Caste: Blade
These are the soldier caste, with highly thick shells on a crab-like body. They are armed with a pair of versatile grabbing pincers made of three strong prongs.
Physical attributes are high at an average of 3500. Mental attributes are moderate at 2250 and agility is a reasonable 3000.

Excellent idea. Once again, consider poison/acid/etc, but if you give both minds and blades assorted attacks like that make the blades' more powerful.

Quote

Would I have to create the CASTEs and then define their bodies and tissues separately?

Yes, yes, and only if there were differences between castes.

Quote

And is it possible to only allow certain job types per caste or would that bugger it up?
I would like to set it so that MINDs physically cannot perform hauling tasks or gain combat skills. Equally I would like to limit the mental abilities of the HANDs and set BLADEs to pure combat/hunting/fishing abilities.

You can't make it impossible, but you can make it so that blades start with natural fighting ability, hands don't learn crafty skills as fast, minds learn crafty skills fast and mining/combat skills almost not at all, etc. Making minds weak also slows them down a lot when hauling, meaning that the stronger blades and hands are prefered for stone/statue/etc hauling.
Also, if you do this, don't make hands too prevelant...they seem like they should be the most common caste, but the jobs they do seem like the ones that need to be done the least. Maybe only jobs that require skill to do well (masonry, carpentry, stonecrafting, most smithing, etc) would be hard to learn by hands, and ones that don't require so much skill (wood cutting/burning, furnace operating, maybe plantering. maybe plant gathering, maybe mining) would be learned at a not-abysmal pace.

Quote

It is the format of the bodies and tissues bit that I don't get as well.
All this stuff unfortunately:
*snip*

Quote

EDIT:
and I just noticed this - SWIMS_INNATE The creature naturally knows how to swim, as opposed to [SWIMS_LEARNED] below. Currently, an AI bug prevents this from being useful on PC races in fortress mode.

Could I use the Swim_Learned tag and designate that it can never drop below Legendary using the NATURAL_SKILL tag?

Yes, but that wouldn't cause them to path through water. PC races are hydrophobic, as well as lagophobic (rabbits, for the non-taxonomist), anecrophobic (the prefix a- means "not"--I'm saying they're not as afraid of death and undead as they should be), and salsusaphobic ("salsus" being Latin for "smart" in the intelligent sense).

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 07:32:29 am

I have yet another question for you folks.

Glad to help.

Quote

Is it possible to create an egg that my race will not consider cooking and that does not need to be in a nest box to hatch?

Yes (if you make the yolk and white out of, say, lead or some other nonedible material) and no (all eggs, to my knowledge, need to be in nest boxes). It might be easier to just have the queen give birth to live young. I think some bugs do, know some snakes and several sharks and some other unexpected critters do, and anyways normal bugs couldn't be 1/1,000 the size of most of those bugs that were suggested in the one suggestion.

Quote

And does the Litter size tag also apply to the number of eggs that are 'produced'?

No, for some reason there is a completely separate tag for that.

Quote

Since the QUEEN caste will be much the same regardless of wether the others are possible or not I have started tinkering with her.
This is what I have but I am just guessing at most of it and have no clue how to start on the rest of her.
This caste is the one to rule them all!!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [CASTE:QUEEN]
      [FEMALE]
      [ALL_ACTIVE]
      [SWIM_SPEED:5000]
      [MAXAGE:2250:2775]

      This bit makes her inexaustable.
      [NONAUSEA]
      [NO_FEVERS]
      [NO_SLEEP]
      [NOEXERT]
      [NOPAIN]
      [NOSTUN]
      [PARALYZEIMMUNE]
      [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK]
      [THICKWEB]
      [ITEMCORPSE:STATUE:INORGANIC:SAPPHIRE_STAR]

      This is the breeding bit.
      [LAYS_EGGS]
      [LITTERSIZE:15:45]

looks pretty good, just remember to define the silk. Maybe make it very valuable. Also change "LITTERSIZE" to the clutch size token and make the queen a wimp. And please explain why she turns into a star sapphire statue upon death.

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am »

Are there any obvious errors in this/stuff that I must add?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know that I need to change the body bit but I am still guessing at how that all links together.
A clear explanation of that would be very welcome indeed.

Thanks,
Dan.

EDIT:
And this is the extensive list of the Queens very high attributes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I set the skill learn rates individually as well as the rust rates using the SKILL_RATES tag then can I make all Caste appropriate skills easy to learn and all Non-appropriate skills really hard to learn/really easy to loose?

And how to you make a Caste Description? I can't find the tag for it so I presume you just put a separate description under each caste?

And how do I define the silk?

~~And how do I override the QUADRUPED body so that the for legs are also on the lower body?~~
Stupid question that is now solved. (The QUADRUPED does not specify whether the legs are attached to upper or lower body.)

I am using the HUMANOID_JOINTS body because it has almost everything I need however I do need to double the number of hip, knee and ankle joints. Do you know how to do this?

Central Speaker Dan · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2011, 10:59:02 am »

I had a sudden stroke of inspiration that allowed me to create most of the body using just the defaults.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I need to figure out how the tissue mechanism works so that I can 'flesh it out' (pun intended).
I also still need help with my previous post's questions.

Thank you all very much,
Dan.

Vattic · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2011, 11:56:49 am »

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am

Are there any obvious errors in this/stuff that I must add?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[CREATUR:SHRAAL]
   [DESCRIPTION:A powerful race of devistatingly clever, extreemely addaptable insectoids.]
   [NAME:shraal:shreel:shreen]
   [CASTE_NAME:shraal:shreel:shreen]
   [CREATURE_TILE:1][COLOR:3:0:0]
   [CREATURE_SOLDIER_TILE:2]

   Basic Characteristics of all the castes.

   [INTELLIGENT]
   [TRANCES]
   [BENIGN]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [FLIER]
   [AMPHIBIOUS]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [EQUIPS]

   I am adding web immune because the Queen can produce thick webs. I also added trap-avoid thus allowing an uber-trap-defended entrance without the need for an on/off switch.

   [WEBIMMUNE]
   [TRAPAVOID]

   This is the alternate route so as to get an inate swimming PC, fortress mode creature.
   Swim speed depends on caste.

   [SWIMS_LEARNED]
   [NATURAL_SKILL:SWIM:15]

   This caste is the one to rule them all!!!

   [CASTE:QUEEN]
      [FEMALE]
      [ALL_ACTIVE]
      [SWIM_SPEED:5000]
      [MAXAGE:2250:2775]

      This bit makes her inexaustable.
      [NONAUSEA]
      [NO_FEVERS]
      [NO_SLEEP]
      [NOEXERT]
      [NOPAIN]
      [NOSTUN]
      [PARALYZEIMMUNE]
      [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK]
      [THICKWEB]
      [FLEEQUICK]
      [ITEMCORPSE:STATUE:TISSUE_TEMPLATE:CHITIN_TEMPLATE]

      This is the breeding bit.
      [LITTERSIZE:15:45]

      This is my best guess of what I must have in the body section.

      [BODY:HUMANOID:6EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:FACIAL_FEATURES:TEETH:RIBCAGE]
      [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:CHITIN_MATERIALS]
      [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:CHITIN_TISSUES]
      [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EXOSKELETON_TISSUE_LAYERS]

I know that I need to change the body bit but I am still guessing at how that all links together.
A clear explanation of that would be very welcome indeed.

So you've defined the materials and tissues but you still need to add them in layers. For that we use a body detail plan. A body detail plan describes what layers each body part is made up of and how thick each layer is. They don't define the tissues used for each layer. You pass the body detail plan the tissues you want it to use and it applies them.

For example here's the part of BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EXOSKELETON_TISSUE_LAYERS that describes the make-up of the ARM_UPPER body part:
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:ARM_UPPER:ARG3:6:ARG2:1:ARG1:2]
Each of those ARGn:x statements represents a layer with ARGn being a tissue and x being the relative thickness. They are backwards for some reason so from left to right it's from the inner most layer to the outer.

You'll likely want to use:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EXOSKELETON_TISSUE_LAYERS:CHITIN:FAT:MUSCLE]
Which means that you're using the body detail plan for exoskeletons and that ARG1 = CHITIN, ARG2 = FAT, ARG3 = MUSCLE. You already have the start of this token placed for your queen.

In short: First you define the body made which is made of body parts. Then you define your materials and tissues. Then you feed the body detail plan with the tissues you want and it applies them to each body part in the order and thickness described by the body detail plan.

Hope this all makes sense.

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am

If I set the skill learn rates individually as well as the rust rates using the SKILL_RATES tag then can I make all Caste appropriate skills easy to learn and all Non-appropriate skills really hard to learn/really easy to loose?

That should work from what I remember.

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am

And how to you make a Caste Description? I can't find the tag for it so I presume you just put a separate description under each caste?

I put the [DESCRIPTION:blah.] tokens under each of the [CASTE:name] tokens for my reworked antmen and that works fine.

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am

And how do I define the silk?

Above [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK] you want [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE].

Quote from: Central Speaker Dan on July 16, 2011, 09:09:44 am

I am using the HUMANOID_JOINTS body because it has almost everything I need however I do need to double the number of hip, knee and ankle joints. Do you know how to do this?

You'll need to make a new set of joints for this. I'd start by copying the HUMANOID_JOINTS entry in body_default, renaming it, and then adding new ones for each part, and finally swapping HUMANOID_JOINTS for whatever you've called them when you define the body for your queen.
Looking at the QUADRUPED_NECK body it is much simpler than the HUMANOID one. Each limb is made up of one part rather than having upper and lower. Not sure if this is what you want. A joint is just like any other body part but with some special tokens to make them breakable through wrestling. You'd need to make new ones for each part. I suggest you make a new set of joints based on HUMANOID_JOINTS and then replace HUMANOID_JOINTS when defining your queens body for your new set.

News:

Author Topic: Creating a new race (Read 12262 times)

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

Andyfuji

Re: Creating a new race

IT 000

Re: Creating a new race

GreatWyrmGold

Re: Creating a new race

Pan

Re: Creating a new race

nemysisrelpse

Re: Creating a new race

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

nemysisrelpse

Re: Creating a new race

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

Jelle

Re: Creating a new race

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

GreatWyrmGold

Re: Creating a new race

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

Central Speaker Dan

Re: Creating a new race

Vattic

Re: Creating a new race