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Author Topic: Getting magma out of a volcano  (Read 8898 times)

notalbanian

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Getting magma out of a volcano
« on: July 26, 2011, 02:58:16 pm »

I started a fortress next to a volcano so I wouldn't have to use coal/charcoal for my metal industry. It's up to 93 dwarves now, and I'm digging out a whole Z-level for more comfortable living/working quarters. I want to put magma smelters/forges/etc. on that level, but I'm not sure how to safely get magma out of a volcano so it can be used for those. All the times I've done that so far have killed the miner (or more accurately, potash maker with a pick) and/or almost flooded part of the fortress, and couldn't be expanded when I needed more magma for additional furnaces. Is there a way to get magma out of a volcano that doesn't kill the miner or flood anything that I don't want to be flooded, and can be expanded later?
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Nameless Archon

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 08:51:12 pm »

I started a fortress next to a volcano so I wouldn't have to use coal/charcoal for my metal industry. It's up to 93 dwarves now, and I'm digging out a whole Z-level for more comfortable living/working quarters. I want to put magma smelters/forges/etc. on that level, but I'm not sure how to safely get magma out of a volcano so it can be used for those. All the times I've done that so far have killed the miner (or more accurately, potash maker with a pick) and/or almost flooded part of the fortress, and couldn't be expanded when I needed more magma for additional furnaces. Is there a way to get magma out of a volcano that doesn't kill the miner or flood anything that I don't want to be flooded, and can be expanded later?
Use "smooth stone" and then "carve fortifications" instead of punching a hole with a pick. The time it takes for the magma to move through the rock is (usually) enough for an unencumbered dwarf to leg it.

Eg:

Magma Reservoir left, Volcano right, X = wall, - = Floor, M = Armok's Holy Blood. Designate the wall in the middle for smoothing, then for having a fortification carved.
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXX
-----XM
XXXXXXX
One thing to be wary of is how many tile of magma are adjacent to the smoothed/carved tile. Note also that dwarves can go (and have gone) to sleep in magma pipes. Make sure they have some other job or task, and that they won't choose to idle or lay down to sleep once their job is done. Lastly, make sure your magma reservoir is magma-proof. Even if your dwarf flees, and runs up a set of stairs, if the only floodgate/door holding it back is not magma proof, the magma is getting out.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 08:52:47 pm by Nameless Archon »
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RAKninja

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 10:28:39 pm »

say i floor over the crater of the volcano.... can i then punch out holes in the floor and build magma workshops?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Ibram

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 10:40:29 pm »

yes, flooring the crater and punching through works, but leaves your dwarves either A.) outside exposed on the face of the volcano or B.) even if you build around the crater for safety, still probably many many x-levels from the rest of the fort.

Magma is not pressurized. punching a hole in the side of the volcano's magma pipe won't cause it to all ooze out of your floor and flood your fortress from below. without being pumped, magma will never rise a z-level, only seep downwards. its much more effective, generally, to build an underground magma reservoir nearer your main fortress levels, and then build the magma forges and smelters above the reservoir, inside, rather than up on top of the crater.
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RAKninja

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 10:58:58 pm »

yes, flooring the crater and punching through works, but leaves your dwarves either A.) outside exposed on the face of the volcano or B.) even if you build around the crater for safety, still probably many many x-levels from the rest of the fort.

Magma is not pressurized. punching a hole in the side of the volcano's magma pipe won't cause it to all ooze out of your floor and flood your fortress from below. without being pumped, magma will never rise a z-level, only seep downwards. its much more effective, generally, to build an underground magma reservoir nearer your main fortress levels, and then build the magma forges and smelters above the reservoir, inside, rather than up on top of the crater.
no problem at all, the crater is actually on the side of a larger mountain.  i'm going to floor over the entire workshop area from above and wall it off.

i'm also not really digging down, but building up.

these are not dwarves, but goblins, and i'm building them a tower.
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Ibram

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 12:20:31 am »

One thing to watch out for if you build on top of the volcano is that the magma level can drop if you later puncture the tube or drain any for other things, and will only slowly refill. If you build on top, make sure that you don't accidentally depower your smelters/forges later from magma drain.
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RAKninja

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 03:14:17 am »

One thing to watch out for if you build on top of the volcano is that the magma level can drop if you later puncture the tube or drain any for other things, and will only slowly refill. If you build on top, make sure that you don't accidentally depower your smelters/forges later from magma drain.
if i were to channel out a moat and fill it with lava, from the top, would the rate of refill balance out the fill of the moat?
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magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Nameless Archon

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 12:42:10 pm »

if i were to channel out a moat and fill it with lava, from the top, would the rate of refill balance out the fill of the moat?
Probably not. The drain of the moat filling will likely eclipse the refill of the volcano by a large margin, and if your workshops are on the top level, they will lose magma and switch off.

When I build my magma forge area, I excavate a chamber on level -1 (to hold the magma), and a chamber on level 0 (to hold the workshops). Then I pump the reservoir full, then puncture the floor once pumping stops. You never need to worry about magma dropping mid-mood this way. (You can ruin a mood and lose a dwarf if magma workshops de-power due to magma loss!)

When I create the reservoir, I'm pumping magma out of the volcano into a fixed reservoir. Three bags of sand, three logs = Magma Safe Pump for 12 Embark points. (...and only three points, if you can cut wood on site to make charcoal.) The input tile of the pump has a ramp up to the level of the pump, and is directly adjacent to the magma-tube wall. Dwarf on level -1 smooths/carves, then walks immediately up the ramp and out of danger. A magma safe grate is placed over the ramp (keeps dodgers out of the lava, and magma critters out of the fort, magma doesn't flood up unless pumped), and the pump is manually operated to fill the reservoir from there.
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notalbanian

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 12:43:34 pm »

I started a fortress next to a volcano so I wouldn't have to use coal/charcoal for my metal industry. It's up to 93 dwarves now, and I'm digging out a whole Z-level for more comfortable living/working quarters. I want to put magma smelters/forges/etc. on that level, but I'm not sure how to safely get magma out of a volcano so it can be used for those. All the times I've done that so far have killed the miner (or more accurately, potash maker with a pick) and/or almost flooded part of the fortress, and couldn't be expanded when I needed more magma for additional furnaces. Is there a way to get magma out of a volcano that doesn't kill the miner or flood anything that I don't want to be flooded, and can be expanded later?
Use "smooth stone" and then "carve fortifications" instead of punching a hole with a pick. The time it takes for the magma to move through the rock is (usually) enough for an unencumbered dwarf to leg it.

Eg:

Magma Reservoir left, Volcano right, X = wall, - = Floor, M = Armok's Holy Blood. Designate the wall in the middle for smoothing, then for having a fortification carved.
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXX
-----XM
XXXXXXX
One thing to be wary of is how many tile of magma are adjacent to the smoothed/carved tile. Note also that dwarves can go (and have gone) to sleep in magma pipes. Make sure they have some other job or task, and that they won't choose to idle or lay down to sleep once their job is done. Lastly, make sure your magma reservoir is magma-proof. Even if your dwarf flees, and runs up a set of stairs, if the only floodgate/door holding it back is not magma proof, the magma is getting out.

Dwarves are really bad at pulling levers, though. I get the feeling the floodgate will close too early and trap the miner, or close too late and flood that level of the fortress.
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jwest23

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 01:48:25 pm »

Absolutely, they are.  I over-complicate things and always use a flood gate and a door.

Code: [Select]
WWWWWWW
---DXWM
WWWWWWW

The flood gate (X) is installed and hooked up to a lever elsewhere.  It is lowered by the lever to provide access to the wall (W) that will get fortifications carved into it.  The dwarf doing that work will access the wall by passing through the door (D) which is not linked to a lever.  After the job is done the dwarf will retreat through the door which will close behind the dwarf and hold the magma at bay.  Raising the flood gate will destroy the magma on that tile.  The door can be safely removed, and when ready the flood gate can be lowered again to let the magma flow.

All the other caveats about using magma-safe materials and having another job for the dwarf to do immediately after the fortifications are carved apply.

Make sure you have a way to drain your magma pipe, either into a spillway or if you don't mind the question of where it all goes, out through the side.
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Triaxx2

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 08:39:35 pm »

Try stacking up pumps to draw over the top, and build your forges up there.
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RAKninja

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 09:03:49 pm »

if i were to channel out a moat and fill it with lava, from the top, would the rate of refill balance out the fill of the moat?
Probably not. The drain of the moat filling will likely eclipse the refill of the volcano by a large margin, and if your workshops are on the top level, they will lose magma and switch off.

When I build my magma forge area, I excavate a chamber on level -1 (to hold the magma), and a chamber on level 0 (to hold the workshops). Then I pump the reservoir full, then puncture the floor once pumping stops. You never need to worry about magma dropping mid-mood this way. (You can ruin a mood and lose a dwarf if magma workshops de-power due to magma loss!)

When I create the reservoir, I'm pumping magma out of the volcano into a fixed reservoir. Three bags of sand, three logs = Magma Safe Pump for 12 Embark points. (...and only three points, if you can cut wood on site to make charcoal.) The input tile of the pump has a ramp up to the level of the pump, and is directly adjacent to the magma-tube wall. Dwarf on level -1 smooths/carves, then walks immediately up the ramp and out of danger. A magma safe grate is placed over the ramp (keeps dodgers out of the lava, and magma critters out of the fort, magma doesn't flood up unless pumped), and the pump is manually operated to fill the reservoir from there.
i think i get the idea, but i have another question.  a murky pool was generated right on the lip of my volcano.  so much so that it's craterward side collapsed immediately on embark, and the water spilled into the crater, creating a bit of obsidian.  not an amazing amount, perhaps slightly less than 1/16th of the total crater area.  now, if i remember what i've read, 1 tile water + 1 tile magma = 1 tile of obsidian wall, right?  so, if i were to dig it from the side (or channel down from the top?) i would be left with 1 tile obsidian floor, correct?  and if i leave the border tiles intact (including those pesky corner tiles) i will have a little room inside the top z of lava, right?

taking the idea a step further, i could obsidianize the top of the crater, and piece by piece remove floor tiles and use pit/ponds to then obsidianize the level below and then channel down.  then i could refloor each z level, leafinf a hole in the middle, surrounded by wall, and a ceiling on the top level i want to actually inhabit (but still under at least 1 z from the top of the tube) and then, through floodgates, open up that hollow middle bit to allow the lava to restore itself to the top of the crater, submerging all my rooms i've built. 

then, as the moat draws from the top z, my magma workshops on my lowest in-crater floor would never have to worry about power.

or am i missing something glaring?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

schussel

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 06:19:29 am »


Use "smooth stone" and then "carve fortifications" instead of punching a hole with a pick. The time it takes for the magma to move through the rock is (usually) enough for an unencumbered dwarf to leg it.

Eg:

Magma Reservoir left, Volcano right, X = wall, - = Floor, M = Armok's Holy Blood. Designate the wall in the middle for smoothing, then for having a fortification carved.
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXX
-----XM
XXXXXXX
better variation ... build a fortification with 1 tile of solid rock between it and the magma .. then clear the area and channel the one tile of rock from above ... the action method of smoothing and carving is very unreliable and often leads to fatalities ^^
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Triaxx2

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 07:26:30 am »

I find that carving a channel, but leaving the last tile in place until I'm ready with a Magma-safe flood gate and mechanisms, to shut it off when I need to.
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Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Re: Getting magma out of a volcano
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 09:34:40 am »

The simplest way to safely break the magma wall is to dig a "spillway" *below* the point where you're breaching the volcano wall -- basically a little channel that the first rush of magma can spill into so your dwarf has time to get away. The simplest way is like this:

Code: [Select]
....x#~~~~
####x#~~~~
#...x#~~~~
######~~~~

Seen from the side, where X is an up/down stair. Breach the wall at the top of the stair, let the magma flow down, your miner will get away safely. Also helps to use a legendary miner since they dig faster.
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