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[RAKninja]

This thread has gone from me asking questions, to something of a proper release/discussion thread for a little project of mine: goblin fortress.  Discussion from after the first upload of my files starts on page three.

DOWNLOAD:  HERE

description of the mod (blatantly ripping off the detailed description i wrote for DFFD):

This makes minor changes to goblins.  Mainly, it allows goblins to be playable in adventure and fortress mode.  Most of the other alterations are to actually let you play a semi-normal game.  These are the modified RAW files.  As I have used unmodified DF, you may have problems using tilesets or other mods.  i know of no easy way to integrate this mod with any other mod that changes the raws it uses, save cutting my modifications out, and replacing the default entries for the other mod's RAWs.

Requirements:

• Dwarf Fortress 34.02

To install:

• Unzip objects.zip, and copy its contents over a fresh install of DF's ~./RAW/objects folder.  Replace everything.
• OPTIONAL:  after generating a world, navigate to ~./data/save/REGIONNAME/raw/creature_standard.txt, and delete [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] from the goblin entry

Changes include:

• Goblins have nobles such as:
• Warlord, a combination of an expedition leader and a militia captain
• Chief Medical Goblin, the same as his dwarven counterpart
• Broker, the same as his dwarven counterpart
• Auditor, the same thing as a bookkeeper
• Enforcer, fulfills the role of a sheriff
• Executioner, just as the name implies, uses the AXE skill.
• Trolls have had the tags [PACK_ANIMAL], [WAGONPULLER], and [WAR_TRAINABLE] added, and the [EQUIPS] tag removed.  Mostly for the purpose of trade.
• Many animals have been changed from [PET_EXOTIC] and [MOUNT_EXOTIC] to [PET] and [MOUNT] respectively
• Positions that have a race-variable name (ie, Swordsdwarf, Swordsman, Swordsgoblin) have been added to goblins
  
• Goblins are active only in winter
• Goblins can process coal and lignite into coke
• Goblins now can cut gems
• Nail and cartilage heal as fast as bone, Nerves twice as slow as bone, and brain damage ten times as slow as bone.
• Goblins now live in caves, till such a time as dark fortresses actually show up in the world.
• Goblins build keeps.

Items of note:

• As carnivores, goblins are [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] by default, to survive worldgen.  please remove those tags from the goblin entry of entity_default.txt of your saved world's raws before embarking
• Also, for the same reason, goblins can not embark with seeds
• Goblins have strange moods
• For the reasons stated above, moods that require plant cloth are prone to failure
• Elves seem to ambush and "siege" about as often as goblins do the same to dwarves.
• Goblin traders do not use bins or barrels
• The Warlord does not upgrade, nor can you attract the monarch and become the capitol.
• Goblins can start with weapons too large for any of them to wield.  remember this and stick to dwarf-sized gear when embarking.
• Goblins lack the ability to make many things that dwarves can.  For example, goblins can not make rock pots. 

Needs testing or verification:

• Goblins give no military demonstrations, only spargoblins do give demonstrations.
  
• The frequency and makeup of ambushes and sieges
• Compatibility with other mods
• The effect of drinking only water.  Goblins do not have [ALCOHOL_DEPENDENCY], but looking at their status in fortress mode shows they are just as dependent as the dwarves.  Lacking the tag should make them immune to lack of booze slowdown, but I am unsure of how much of the booze dependency is hardcoded.
• As carnivores, I am unsure that goblins will eat prepared food. Goblins readily eat prepared food.
  

For added challenge:

• Goblins live in towers, not in holes in the ground.  Build your fortress as a tower, At least 10x10, but preferably at least 20x20.  Bonus points for using only obsidian blocks for construction
• Remove [BABYSNATCHER] from goblins, and add it to humans, elves, and dwarves.
• Build a megaproject with [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] removed from the start, invasions on.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Add a monarch position. Or replace [APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH] or whatever with [APPOINTED_BY:MASTER] or whatever the highest gobbo position is.

Also make trolls pack animals so they can bring caravans. Maybe make them wagonpullers so they can pull  wagon and mounts for some odd reason.

[RAKninja]

Add a monarch position. Or replace [APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH] or whatever with [APPOINTED_BY:MASTER] or whatever the highest gobbo position is.

Also make trolls pack animals so they can bring caravans. Maybe make them wagonpullers so they can pull  wagon and mounts for some odd reason.

oh, i forgot to mention, i am applying this to an in-progress game.  i wont mind having to abandon (i'm building a tower, and have not built anything for my goblins at all.  yes, RAK, you are the demons) but i do not want to regen the world.  i rather like this world (i see 2-3 middle of the ocean volcanoes i want to explore sometime, and my current embark is quite awesome.... first iron ore i ever found, and there's a ton of it.... on the freekin side of a volcano)

as to the APPOINTED_BY tags, that is what i am confused about.  goblins have a master, and a general/warlord/whatever he calls himself, but these positions are not defined in the entity_default.txt file.  so i am unsure that adding them will have any effect, or what would happen if i defined them myself.

also of note, goblins only have render fat and tan a hide reactions listed, yet can usually do anything at a workshop they can build that they have the labor for (a notable exception is a jeweler's workshop.  they can build it, but they do not have the labor to be enabled)

as to trolls:
i dont think goblins should trade.  i'll leave them out of wagonpulling.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm, I guess you'd have to copy over the monarch too. Oh, and you'll need a regen regardless.

Most reactions are hardcoded.

Finally, no trade? Suit yourself.

[tagg]

You should be able to regen the same world if you use the same seed/settings. I don't think changing the raws to give goblins nobles will make it gen differently, but I'm not sure.

[RAKninja]

You should be able to regen the same world if you use the same seed/settings. I don't think changing the raws to give goblins nobles will make it gen differently, but I'm not sure.

nobles would be assigned to local governments during worldgen, right?  like how humans create lords and such.  so, for instance, i could end up with a lot more tamed creatures for the civ?  and i think it may mess with the history as well.

still, it's my first world with a 1000 year history.... and it had 38 or so rejections due to "too many subregions" (i played around with the weighted ranges).  i will not look forward to another 45 min worldgen.  oh, and i must remember to remove the no eat and drink tags after worldgen this time.... i was wondering why my gobbos never got hungry.

it'd be a damn shame to lose those two ocean volcanoes.  i mean, they're practically right next to each other.

i guess i'll be copying and renaming nobles from the dwarves, but the whole monarch thing still has me worried.  i have a sneaking suspicion that if i were to copy the dwarven monarch entry, i'd end up with a goblin "king", AND a Master.

as for the expedition leader/mayor, i'm thinking of bundling those duties into militia commander.  is there some way to assign a position automatically based on the highest skill?  in contrast to the dwarves electing the dwarf with the most friends as mayor, i'd like to make the goblin with the highest, say, fighter skill be the "leader".

oh, and as something of an afterthought, perhaps i will allow "trade" if i can somehow get the "traders" to not really bring anything, but demand offerings in tribute.  that seems fairly goblinish.  if not, i can always have the traders show up empty handed and make believe that me unloading my junk on them is "tribute", right?

[RAKninja]

so, any last minute technical suggestions before i go off the deep end and start screwing around?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Reconsider trolls. Make jabberers common domestics or at least non-exotics, and reduce the petvalue if you still don't want traders. Maybe make elves babysnatchers so you can build a flooding depot just for them. Make sure you have a pick, an axe, and several other weapons that are small enough for goblins. Make sure you have enough military.

[RAKninja]

technical advice, not gameplay advice =D

i'll change whatever exotics my civ has tamed after worldgen to [pet] (if history gen works the same as it did for my original goblin world worldgen, it'll only be blizzard men).

for trading:  is it possible to make the goblins want more minimum profit to accept a trade?  i dont want to dick around with item values.

well, off to copy my DF folder and start adding nobles.  once everything works to my satisfaction, i'll likely put it on DFFD despite this mainly being a "personal" mod.  might save other people some time if they want realistically playable vanilla goblins. (not being able to create a militia really makes them unplayable)

[RAKninja]

everything seems to be working....  i'm still going to have to test things out... i didnt check legends and embarked as dead civ goblins, so i cant tell if the diplomat is functioning.  i may have to separate the administrative leadership from the military, as i bundled expedition leader into militia commander (now known as "warlord").  after glancing around at goblin civs in legends, it seems that demons still can become master....  one thing i am unsure of, though... do goblins normally have "law-givers"?  to be honest, i've never really checked too much into them, and almost every goblin civ i have come into contact with has had a demon master.

on a side note, on the regenned world (all the same seeds and settings) i did not generate the same world.... nor did it even have the same name.  i am disappointed, as the "best" volcano that roughly corresponds to the embark i was playing before i started this endeavor  is kind of on a cliff, rather than a small plateau on the side of a larger hill.  i'm going to regen again (renamed militia commander after genning this last world) and hope i get a world more closely matching the first.

i'll continue testing for a few days, and if everything is satisfactory, i will upload as promised.

edit, though this hardly requires an upload.... i could prolly get by by posting the relevant section of entity_default.txt

also, anyone have good goblinish names for the bookkeeper and chief medical goblin?  as i said before, the leader/military leader is the warlord, i'm going to make the manager the "taskmaster".

[darkflagrance]

also, anyone have good goblinish names for the bookkeeper and chief medical goblin?  as i said before, the leader/military leader is the warlord, i'm going to make the manager the "taskmaster".

How about the Loremaster and the High/Chief Shaman?

[astianax]

i think goblins and humans both get a variety of leadership positions, rather than a set one like the dwarven monarch. i've seen master, law-giver, and warlord as options for leadership of both their civs (it's the tag [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] that does this)

so, most of their demon overlords and such just prefer 'master' but the occasional one will decide to go for a different title

as for your position titles, taskmaster does work for the manager. maybe overlord or overseer for bookkeeper?
chief medic, you could always use the archaic term chirurgeon. although it's prob'ly not the flavor you're after, i can't really think of anything else

[RAKninja]

good suggestions, both of you.  i might keep overseer in reserve in case combining civilian and military leadership into one position does not work out the best (i have a suspicion that military duties such as training might override "conduct meeting".... that particular job seems a bit low on the priorities list)

loremaster seems a bit too.... i dont know, organized for the goblins.  hell, the bookkeeper position itself seems a bit too organized.  and it has little to do with lore.  using my brain for one, i looked up "bookkeeper in a thesaurus, and found the term "auditor".  i think i'll use that.

still up in the air about CMG.  the current medical system fits goblins very well, but i'd like to somehow indicate that goblins like to ritually scar themselves.  unfortunately, a term like "sawbones" is a bit too specific, and i doubt the goblins would call their chief medic a "quack".  shaman could work, i suppose, but that kind of implies a kind of "religion"... the kind that the elves practice.  the thesaurus does not really help me in this instance.

perhaps "cunningman"... that seems to fit the bill nicely looking at the definition and history of the term, though it fails to express a few key points of goblin "society".  this is a difficult task, as goblin society does not work in the real world, so terms that would apply have never really been invented.  i really want to avoid "witch doctor" as that has been overused by greenskins in other fiction, and we dont have those goblins, we have "labyrinth goblins".

bah, i'll leave it at CMG for the time being.  if you know anything about our goblins, the term should be descriptive enough.

well, back to testing i suppose.

[RAKninja]

testing has revealed some unusual things.

i assume that goblins being active all four season, to enable sieges at anytime i suppose, means there is a possible goblin caravan every season.  i will change their ownly active season to winter.

trolls that show up in trader cages drop their clothes in the depot, allowing you to sell them to the traders.  i will remove troll clothing.

trolls in cages you do not buy from traders will trigger a kidnapping message when the traders leave the map.  removing the babysnater tag would fix this, but not keep humans, elves, and dwarves hostile.

elves are hostile.  presumably humans and dwarves are as well.  elven ambush triggered around the same time a goblin ambush would have triggered.

goblins could not make coke, i have fixed this.

goblins mood.  hrmmm...

goblins have ghosts.

goblins will butcher elves and dead animals, but not other goblins or pets.

there is no way to attract your civ leader.  this is prolly a good thing, as some goblin civ leaders would kill many goblins with dust or secretions.

goblins do not make soap.  i have not changed this.

next testing phase will be the removal of no_eat and no_drink tags.  as goblins can not embark with seeds as yet (dont know what to add to the entry)  embarking on water is essential if you want to remove these tags immediately..

[The Master]

"Eh...Urist..."
"What is it now Urist..."
"Why in the name of Armok is there a goblin...MINING?!"
"Shut up, i'm trying t-HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT!"
"Well, at least they know not to dig up the Adamant-"
*HORRIFYING SCREAMS ECHO FROM THE CAVERN BELOW*
"...shit."