Topic: Goblin Fortress (Read 33465 times)

Ceeker · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:03:02 am »

What about "Witchdoctor" for the Chief Medical Goblin?

Looking forward to this upload, btw.

RAKninja · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2011, 10:35:52 am »

further testing, no have not made them require food yet.... waiting till i get the facilities ready in my test tower.

lack of a jeweler causes many moods to fail. i wonder if there is any way i can restrict goblin jewel-crafting to glass.

tantrum spirals are not that bad. yes goblins will die, but goblins like to fight. so far have had about 3 tantrum spirals that would have killed a dwarven fortress. i suspect even these tantrums would be less likely if the goblins were eating and in proper facilities.

trolls get married.

i'm prolly going to add pet tags to other cave wildlife that goblins tend to use.

prolly going to add "trainable" tag to trolls. elves "sieged" and brought giant war rhinos and cheetahs....sucks not being able to respond in kind.

being off duty military does tend to slow down the meeting process of the warlord. fortunately, not enough to justify separating the positions

liaison refers to "mountainhome".... unsure if this is fixable.

ceeker: i'm specifically avoiding "witch doctor" as other fiction overuses this for goblins.

it shouldent be too much longer before i do upload, i'm steadily ironing out the kinks.

RAKninja · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2011, 12:14:19 pm »

currently in testing: added jeweler job, for cutting, not encrusting. this should stop many moods from failing. also puts raw green glass to use.

removed the active seasons tags for all but winter on goblins. it got ridiculous, with caravans piling up and liaisons waiting in line to speak to the warlord.

changed most cavern life from pet_exotic and mount_exotic to pet and mount respectively. i dont know how this will effect worldgen and immigration (the civ i am testing only has trolls, and all immigrants with a pet show up with a troll). perhaps these changes are best applied after worldgen, such as with no_eat and no_drink. if so, i'll label the files needed to apply after worldgen explicitly.

removed equip tag from trolls. this should stop the problem of trader's trolls in cages dropping all of their clothes, and allowing you to sell them back to the caravan. this may have the unintended consequence of changing how the trolls fight.... i assume that with the tag they can wrestle away a weapon and use it. without the tag, i am unsure if this possibility exists.

added war_trainable to trolls. should help against the war rhinos.

franti · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2011, 02:01:19 pm »

I tried this as well, but abandoned because Gobs don't have a military screen.
I atempted this at the same time as I tried to add Slade to the game as a useable ore: I got Slade Bars, but I can't forge it into stuff.
I recomend leaving Trolls and Ogres as sort of "sub-citizens" to marry and such, and using cave creatures for mounts. In my opinion, Giant Rats are a very goblin-esque mount.

franti · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2011, 02:05:51 pm »

If you would post the mods you made to the Goblins, that would be helpful. I'd just do it myself, but I've got my Slade issue.
I'd like to make Slade a default material for Goblins, because of their demon lords.
Also, how would I go about making Nightwings a trainable/tameable/embarkable animal for Goblins?

Shintaro Fago · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2011, 03:15:58 pm »

Make some kind of obsidian-summoning altar so we can enjoy Dark Fortresses.

GreatWyrmGold · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2011, 06:19:47 pm »

I second the Obsidian Altar and the Posted Raws.

RAKninja · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:41:52 pm »

Quote from: franti on August 01, 2011, 02:01:19 pm

I tried this as well, but abandoned because Gobs don't have a military screen.
I atempted this at the same time as I tried to add Slade to the game as a useable ore: I got Slade Bars, but I can't forge it into stuff.
I recomend leaving Trolls and Ogres as sort of "sub-citizens" to marry and such, and using cave creatures for mounts. In my opinion, Giant Rats are a very goblin-esque mount.

trolls marry due to "[CAN_LEARN]" i think, which implies sentience. i have not changed this. interesting to note: trolls with professions cannot be trained into war trolls. giant rats have indeed been changed from exotic to common.

Quote from: franti on August 01, 2011, 02:05:51 pm

If you would post the mods you made to the Goblins, that would be helpful. I'd just do it myself, but I've got my Slade issue.
I'd like to make Slade a default material for Goblins, because of their demon lords.
Also, how would I go about making Nightwings a trainable/tameable/embarkable animal for Goblins?

to make nightwings tamable, find where they are stored in the raw files, and either change [PET_EXOTIC] to [PET], or just add [PET] if it does not have the exotic tag. i am unsure if this opens them up for embark, but if your civ leader has tamed them, you will have access at embark regardless of pet tags. (before changing pet tags, i had blizzard men embarkable with goblins)

Quote from: Shintaro Fago on August 01, 2011, 03:15:58 pm

Make some kind of obsidian-summoning altar so we can enjoy Dark Fortresses.

i wouldent know what it would do, or how to make it. i'm actually trying to modify the goblins at little as possible, while still rendering them playable.

raws thus far incoming. changes made so far:
*goblins are playable as both adventurers and in fortress mode
*nail tissue heals as fast as bone
*nerve tissue heals twice as slow as bone
*brain tissue heals ten times as slow as bone
*kobolds are no_eat and no_drink to survive worldgen
*most creatures in creatures_subterranean are now [PET] instead of [PET_EXOTIC]. non-pet creatures have not been changed.
*goblins can make coke out of coal and lignite
*goblins can cut gems
*goblins are active only in winter
*goblins have a broker
*goblins have an "auditor" (bookkeeper)
*goblins have a chief medical goblin
*goblins have a "warlord", a noble position that combines the duties of a militia commander, and a mayor.
*militia captains are "warband captains"
*trolls are [WAGON_PULLER] [MOUNT] [PACK ANIMAL] and [WAR_TRAINABLE]. they no longer [EQUIP]
*not a change but helpful to note, you can shear trolls, and spin their yarn into thread, and weave that into cloth.
*not changed - goblins are [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] by default, to survive worldgen. i have not yet tested removing this tag.

please note, some of these changes can apply to dwarves as well, so you might want to use a separate world for your goblin towers.

i did not include the subterranean creatures raws, they exceed the post character limit. i am waiting on doing a proper upload till i am satisfied with the changes.

RAKninja · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:52:41 pm »

entry for troll in creature_standard.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kobold in creature_standard.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

goblin entry in entity_default.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

cartilage in tissue_template_default.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

nail in tissue_template_default.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

nerve and brain in tissue_template_default.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

astianax · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2011, 03:30:00 am »

don't limit your goblins to just cave creatures. remember there's a lot of evil creatures in other places, mostly swamps and marshes. beak dogs just scream to be made goblin pets, at the very least. and ogres, as someone earlier mentioned. ice wolves are another fun option, from 'creatures standard'. also possibilities with grimelings, yeti, and maybe sasquach. heck, see if you can get them werewolves, stranglers, and harpies and the elves won't know what hit 'em

you can even go and get them access to 'cute and cuddly' vermin pets like demon rats, knuckle worms and phantom spiders, to show a softer side (of sorts). if you want these vermin as pets (and possibly moghoppers and two legged rhino lizards) they're in the 'creatures other' entry. and, may want to take vermin hateable off of flies, blood gnats, rats, bats and such. i doubt goblins will really dislike any of those...

may also want to add the 'use any pet race' tag, once taking the pet exotic off of things. that'll usually give you access to things like elk birds or blind cave bears. but may also give you elephants or other wandering animals local to the area your civ is set up in. (for example, with that tag on, i embark in jungles with access to arctic foxes, polar bears and such if my home civ is based in the tundra). to make them really scary, try making giant desert scorpions and giant cave spiders war trainable pets (and also mod them to have kids. live birth in their cases, egglaying gets iffy with the arachnids...)

and, if you wind up changing foul blendecs to be pets, either add the no eat/drink tags to them or make sure to pasture them with food/water sources or let them wander free (this also applies to gremlins, satyrs and any other sentient race other than ogres and trolls, from my knowledge. basically, anything that names itself when born.) there's also dark gnomes, but i've just found them and mountain gnomes to be pointless and annoying pets. great food and leather to order, though. also, even with the eating of sentients turned on, if you choose to slaughter any sentient pets, the meat and organs will just be put in the refuse stockpile, rather than used for food. irksome for that gremlin farm i wanted... (ogres, trolls, mountain gnomes, and dark gnomes seem 'quasi-sentient' rather than true sentient, and are usually exempt from this)

on a different bit of the subject, it looks like goblins can't be farmers, which is prob'ly the reason you can't start with seeds. they *do* however have access to the herbalist and brewer professions, so all isn't totally lost on the booze angle. or, you could just add farmer to their civ raws and see about keeping them carnivores, just using plants for boozing it up.

...sorry for the wall of text, but hopefully you'll find at least a little of it useful

RAKninja · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2011, 11:14:08 am »

i think they can farm once you gather plants and brew them. you cannot start farming though, and i still think it's a good idea to stay NO_EAT and NO_DRINK till you get thngs set up at least. being carnivores (and bonecarn) i am unsure goblins will eat prepared food.my next test embark will set up dining facilities first, so as to test the removal of the no_eat and no_drink tags.

i doubt i'm doing all that stuff with the pets.... i might, but i doubt it. many of those things are tamed by civ leaders during worldgen. i may yet change the tags, though. i do need to find more of the "evil" pets, as i dont think i saw some of the more obvious entries in creature_subterranean. they did, however, follow the dwarven custom of not butchering pets. in fact, pet-pets (belonging to an individual i mean) require burial. i dont think trolls make ghosts, but it's a bit hard to tell.... 50 odd goblin deaths resulted in two ghosts. i still want pets to mainly be trolls unless your civ leader has tamed things, or you tame them on-site.

despite being evil, i dont doubt that goblins hate vermin. vermin still break into food stockpiles and such. not having access to cats means you may well have to actually employ some trappers. my test embark did not have any vermin problems though, aside from flies.

goblins butcher sentients. i had no problem butchering the elves i killed, then turning them into roasts, boots, and bolts.

i've just noticed goblins are alcohol dependent, according to viewing their description. i do not think they are slowed by the lack of alcohol, as they lack the actual alcohol dependence tag.

goblin traders do not use bins or barrels.

goblins do not make rock pots.

my test embark was just overrun by an elven siege in which they brought their princess. my military would have handled it, but as each elf brought a war rhino or war giant cheetah, i had little chance. i think it was 8 or so ambush groups. there were many pages of elves on the unit screen. my test embark was something of a megaproject. it was a square tower 400 tiles in area. it rose 12-13 z-levels up, and went down three. i collapsed every layer that i went down.... i was literally carving away the mountainside, and piling the stone into a tower.

time to generate a new world and test.

astianax · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2011, 05:22:08 pm »

yeah, a lot of those things i mentioned are in the 'creatures standard' file, so if it's ogres or the like you're after, they're prob'ly in that. if i remember, beak dogs are swamp/marsh biome, ogres are plains, and ice wolves are, of course, tundra. those're the three that strike me the most as potential pets from the surface. a lot of the typical goblin mounts tamed in world gen are from caverns 2 and 3, which you wouldn't be able to start with without said leader taming, even with use any pet race turned on, since that only applies to things found in cavern 1 (which i discovered trying to make purring maggots embarkable pets). most of the creatures from caverns 2 and 3 are in the 'next underground' creatures entry.

and, i didn't intend the removing vermin hateable as the goblins actually liking the critters. more just them going "meh, no big deal" while shooing flies off the meat they're about to eat. the difference between 'annoyed by flies' and 'accosted by terrible vermin'. i just don't see the latter actually happening all that much, based on the types of places they like to live

and, i like that goblins don't have cat access, and know that you're pretty much sticking with vanilla, but if you'd like, you can make something like a spider variant that is a vermin hunter. i have one for my dwarves, basically mixed all the best parts of cats (skipping the adopting people part) and best parts of spiders. gave them the pet tag, set them in the first layer, and every embark they've been an option, as well as their silk (which they don't use at all) being available for import. something like that may give goblins another cloth option than troll fur for many embarks.

franti · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2011, 06:58:39 pm »

I didn't modify the Goblins too much. I did give them a military, however. That's it. I'm currently building a giant tower of Basalt over a volcano. I've decided that Goblins live in above-ground tower fortresses.

RAKninja · « **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2011, 08:21:48 pm »

i've changed profession titles for goblins. mirrored to the dwarves. now you have craftsgoblins and swordsgoblins, instead of swordsmen and craftsmen.

i have gone through all of the creature files, and added/changed the pet tag for all creatures i found "acceptable"

i may have to modify goblins to make keeps for adventure mode. you start in human towns, often the only friendly town you have, and you can esily start a fight by moving and not paying attention.

i have seen nothing untoward in worldgen, looking through the legends of two worlds. my newest test embark is actually at war with the dwarves.

in theory, you should be able to embark just fine without no_eat and no_drink, but you will want a watersource. my kitchen is almost complete, so i'll be able to report on that soon.

all in all, i think i'm about done. unless i notice something glaring in the next couple of days, the changes i've so far made will be zipped up and uploaded.

franti · « **Reply #29 on:** August 03, 2011, 12:00:37 am »

I tried this, with a couple mods, again.
Made a new world, set about building a giant Obsidian tower. Going fairly well. Planning on flooding the bottom floors with Magma to act as a forge/garbage dump. Elves keep attacking. More annoying than anything: as long as the Humans/Dwarves don't show up I'll be fine.
Four things:
1) What would you do to get the liason that shows up to have a caravan with him?
2) Why won't my goblins equipt armour? They'll equipt swords/shields, but no armour other than that.
3) How do I add the "farming" and "crafting" tasks in the menu. I've made Butchering/Growing a profession, but I can't add it to my goblins. I'd also like to remove "weaving" from several goblins that wander into the caverns or turn all my thread for stitching into cloth.
4) Do Goblins get pissed about drinking water? I know they dislike not having a well. I ran out of Sewer Brew awhile ago, and I can't make more because I can't designate a goblin as a brewer.

Finally, I'm working on adding Slade to the game as a goblin-useable material. I've also decided that Pig Iron, Steel, and Adamantine are beyond a Goblin's ability to smelt.

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Author Topic: Goblin Fortress (Read 33465 times)

Ceeker

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

franti

Re: goblin fortress

franti

Re: goblin fortress

Shintaro Fago

Re: goblin fortress

GreatWyrmGold

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

astianax

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

astianax

Re: goblin fortress

franti

Re: goblin fortress

RAKninja

Re: goblin fortress

franti

Re: goblin fortress