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[RAKninja]

Goblins don't seem to be able to make bronze (bismuth or regular). Is this by design? They probably should be able to imho since they have the ability to smelt iron.

Actually it seems to be any sort of bar involving more than one material. Steel I can understand the removal of.

Also, Goblins can manufacture bolts and crossbows as well as having the marksman skill, but cannot use them.

i perhaps should add in the reactions for bronze.  by default, goblins only seem to use copper, silver, or iron.

it seems reasonable that goblins understand the alloying of bronze if they can manage weapons grade iron.

they dont use crossbows?  i'll admit i mainly tested that they used bows.  have you made sure your crossbow squads are set to use bolts of ammo?  are you only using the default "ranged weapon of choice" option, or specifying crossbows?  did the goblins in question have hunting, mining, or woodcutting enabled?

i've been working on this only intermittently, i'll have to test for myself later tonight.... my test fortress isnt quite up to producing any kind of weaponry right now, been focusing on cooking and dining ares to test that aspect.  i seem to remember them working fine on my last test tower, but that might have been an overflow of bows.  looking at the raws, goblins have the use of both crossbows and bows, with the correct ammo, enabled by default.

adding the bronze should be easy - just add this to entity_default in goblins if you dont want to wait for a new upload (i'm accumulating a few changes and fixes first).

Code: [Select]

[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING]

[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING2]
add this to the main raws, and any already generated worlds.  should not require a regen, as adding both jewelcrafting and the ability to make coke did not.

please note, goblins in worlds generated with this setting could come armed with bronze when playing as dwarves.  another reason to make your goblin fortress worlds apart from worlds where you play as other races, much like having goblins only active in winter.

[Ceeker]

Yeah, I was wrong about the crossbows. My bad. I made one, but it wasn't showing up in the equipment list for whatever reason. Maybe a hunter claimed it?

[Ceeker]

I had no idea it was that easy! I added all these to mine, for now (and yeah, I'm running this in a new game folder). I personally don't think it's a stretch to have the goblins make any of these materials, and most are just craft materials anyway. They all seem to work fine.

Code: [Select]

[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRASS_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRASS_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ELECTRUM_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ELECTRUM_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BILLON_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BILLON_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PEWTER_FINE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PEWTER_FINE_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PEWTER_TRIFLE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PEWTER_TRIFLE_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PEWTER_LAY_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:NICKEL_SILVER_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BLACK_BRONZE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:STERLING_SILVER_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ROSE_GOLD_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BISMUTH_BRONZE_MAKING]

Left steel and adamantine out. Maybe it'd be nice for them to have a late-game equivalent to the latter, though.

[RAKninja]

Yeah, I was wrong about the crossbows. My bad. I made one, but it wasn't showing up in the equipment list for whatever reason. Maybe a hunter claimed it?

quite possible, but it is good to note hunters will use bows as well. 

I had no idea it was that easy! I added all these to mine, for now (and yeah, I'm running this in a new game folder). I personally don't think it's a stretch to have the goblins make any of these materials, and most are just craft materials anyway. They all seem to work fine.

Left steel and adamantine out. Maybe it'd be nice for them to have a late-game equivalent to the latter, though.

i purposefully did not include the non-weapons grade alloys.  i felt goblins were raiders rather than crafters.  sure they would be interested in ways to produce more weapons or armor, but by and large they care far more about fighting and plunder than mixing up decorative metals to make trinkets.  for me the "plain" decorative metals are fine.... but it is your game, mod it how you like.

personally, i'd leave steel out entirely.  only the dwarves are supposed to have the secrets of steel.  take it from them, it's more goblinsish =D

[Ceeker]

Fair point regarding craft metals, actually. And agreed with steel. I was thinking more adamantine - maybe there could be a special type of less dense slade that goblins know how to use, which only occurs in the same layers as adamantite.

After slaughtering a bunch of capybara men for kicks and turning their skulls into totems, I was thinking - is it possible to treat other sapients besides trolls as livestock, to represent the ones taken as children? You could train them as war "animals" or slaughter them for bood/bones/leather. I'd probably leave milking and shearing out, though, lol. :/ I'm thinking this is probably not possible for entities with civilizations attached to them, but you'd know better than I.

[scion-of-fenrir]

Fair point regarding craft metals, actually. And agreed with steel. I was thinking more adamantine - maybe there could be a special type of less dense slade that goblins know how to use, which only occurs in the same layers as adamantite.

Oooh, name the metal Darksteel! If you play Magic, you'll get it! If not, it is, essentially, unbreakable steel. The name seems fitting for Goblins.

[RAKninja]

Fair point regarding craft metals, actually. And agreed with steel. I was thinking more adamantine - maybe there could be a special type of less dense slade that goblins know how to use, which only occurs in the same layers as adamantite.

After slaughtering a bunch of capybara men for kicks and turning their skulls into totems, I was thinking - is it possible to treat other sapients besides trolls as livestock, to represent the ones taken as children? You could train them as war "animals" or slaughter them for bood/bones/leather. I'd probably leave milking and shearing out, though, lol. :/ I'm thinking this is probably not possible for entities with civilizations attached to them, but you'd know better than I.

i notice that goblins have the strand extractor job, but not the ability to make wafers.  perhaps i might look into this custom reaction thing, and make something that takes adamantine strands and a unit of slade.

depending on your civ leader, you may be able to embark with non-civilized sentients.  one test embark i did had blizzard men available.

to tell the truth, i'm not sure what makes the trolls embarkable as livestock to goblins.  perhaps it's the [EVIL] tag in conjunction with [PET]?  try adding those to a beast race and see if it works.

also, i realize that i missed some creatures in creature_standard for exotic to common pet tag conversion.

[franti]

I named the metal Rathesteel, in homage to the only good mmorpg I've ever played. It's Blood-Thorn red, and smelting it requires an interesting ingredient list, but it fits with what I logically think Slade is. I haven't been able to get pure Slade-Metal in game.

[RAKninja]

trolls can throw and attend parties.

it hadent happened my last test because i had no meeting halls or statues to throw them at.  i am about to begin the food test.  and my pastured trolls are trying to party.

[RAKninja]

success!

goblins will drink alcohol and eat prepared meals.

note: so far the only meals they have eaten that i have managed to inspect were completely out of meat products.  still watching to see if they will eat mixed meals, or prepared food made only out of plants.

edit:  ive seen them now eat mixed meals.  this time including both booze and plants.  i also do not know if i am just unused to the high framerate of an early fort, but it seems the goblins need a drink a bit more often than the dwarves.

also, not every goblin is alcohol dependent, but some are.  also of note, most every goblin is quick to anger and does not go out of his way to help others.  you may want to burrow your chief medical goblin.

currently under human siege.  one squad of lashers, a maceman leader, and a war poler bear.  unfortunately i do not have the equipment to join battle with them.  no sign of dwarves yet, though i am at war with them.  i suspect they might show up this autumn.  hopefully i can have a squad armored up by then.

[franti]

My goblins grow and eat Prickle Berries.
What'd you do to yours?

[RAKninja]

My goblins grow and eat Prickle Berries.
What'd you do to yours?

nothing, but i was worried that they would not eat prepared meals due to people having that sort of issue adding [BONECARN] to dwarves.  goblins are twice marked carnivorous, once through [CARNIVORE] and once through [BONECARN].  i was worried they would not eat plants.

i guess the next feat shall be removing the [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] tags from trolls.  if that works out, i'll not be pasturing trolls anymore, and allow them to roam so as to be able to eat.

i'm kind of iffy about adding trolls to the goblin civs themselves.  i see them more as slaves/livestock than full members of "society"  but having eating and drinking requirements from the start for both goblins and trolls, along with not being able to embark with seeds and peer pressure to build towers rather than tunnels should really amp up the difficulty of starting a new embark.

funny side effect of removing [NO_DRINK] from the goblins on an in-progress game.  the entire population decided to have a drink at the same time.

[franti]

I see Trolls as sub-citizens: drafted into the military and forced to to unskilled labour. Ogres, too.
But if you don't want to make them part of the civ, at least try it and tell me what you did because I've had no luck.

[RAKninja]

I see Trolls as sub-citizens: drafted into the military and forced to to unskilled labour. Ogres, too.
But if you don't want to make them part of the civ, at least try it and tell me what you did because I've had no luck.

i'll add the appropriate tags, gen a world, and try later tonight.

goblin fortresses will be a lot more interesting in the future, when migrants are not generated on the spot.  assuming your civ has had a minimum of success babysnatching, you'd be playing "melting-pot fortress".

perhaps if i can restrict clowns but allow normal races, i'll add an actual attractable goblin monarch.

[astianax]

you could always build the master's (lord's, law-giver's, whatever it feels like calling itself) room at the top of your tower, with only an exterior entrance, and pray your clown boss is a flyer...